Natural Substances that Do Work

[PatKelley]

Sorry to start up a thread so soon after starting the previous, but it got me to thinking about the things that are being discovered about various dietary ingredients that help, but aren't in the pharmeceutical bailywick, and equally aren't appealing to Homeopaths because they aren't rare, symbolic, or somehow considered "natural"

I'm talking about cinnamon, turmeric, and again turmeric, olive oil, and now Omega-3 fatty acids.

Each of these, along with others I'm not citing I'm sure of it, are potentially potent elements in fighting intractable, incurable, or inevitably lethal conditions, yet little is made of it.

Is it because they are not pharmeceuticals? Well, patenting them would do no good, they are widespread enough to escape attempts at patenting. Is it because they actually cost money to get an effective dose, rather than the filler than can go into "homeopathic" remedies like common tap water?

Why?

I have a friend whose father is dying of pancreatic cancer right now, and two of these discoveries could potentially have not only saved his life, but given him a real long term chance at quality of life.

Again, why?

 

[Zep]

They probably HAVE BEEN or ARE being studied as medicines. No-one is going to deny they are effective if they have been PROVEN. But there's the thing: Are they PROVEN? If so, for what, and to what level of confidence?

It's no good just saying "but they could be the cure". Otherwise the poor patient will be fed on an everchanging diet of increasingly weird foodstuffs fom around the globe in an effort to find something that "might just work". A guessing game, in short.

And even if one of these IS found to have a certain medicinal quality, which I won't deny they may have, does that mean you then start shoving down bowlfuls of cinnamon, say, in an effort to combat the disease? What about the side-effects? What about the ability of the body to readily absorb active ingredients? Would it not be a good idea to find "the active ingredients" instead? If you say yes, then that's what pharmacologists and other researchers do.

So, in general, the answer is "yes", such substances MAY have medicinal properties. So they probably will be in the pharmaceutical bailywick, actually. The issue at hand is to determine what they are good for and how to deliver them properly to the patient.

 

[Ducky]

Each of these, ... are potentially potent elements in fighting intractable, incurable, or inevitably lethal conditions,....

This statement needs evidence to support it.

I am a cancer patient. How would these dietary ingredients combat a tumor that was created by faulty mitosis? I don't see in any of those links anything that looks to me to be an explination of how the cancers are fought.

Also, I would like to see more links from a different source. Every one of those articles is the same web page. Is it reputable? My google skills may suck, but I can't find anything on pubmed or the JAMA with regard to the compounds above that fight cancer.


ETA: I am a multiple Myeloma patient, if that helps the description of how these cancer fighting agents work.

 

[epepke]

Sorry to start up a thread so soon after starting the previous, but it got me to thinking about the things that are being discovered about various dietary ingredients that help, but aren't in the pharmeceutical bailywick, and equally aren't appealing to Homeopaths because they aren't rare, symbolic, or somehow considered "natural"

I'm talking about cinnamon, turmeric, and again turmeric, olive oil, and now Omega-3 fatty acids.

Each of these, along with others I'm not citing I'm sure of it, are potentially potent elements in fighting intractable, incurable, or inevitably lethal conditions, yet little is made of it.

The cinnamon study hasn't been published yet, so we'll have to wait.

The turmeric studies are interesting, but the fact that they are legitimately being researched indicates that they will probably be part of the pharmacopea if they turn out to work.

That olive oil has an NSAID in it isn't really about fighting intractable, incurable, or inevitably lethal conditions.

However, if you are going to count that, then you could also count oleoresin capsicum, the active ingredient in hot peppers. It's great as a linament, and it also encourages mucus production.

I think you also have to add food, water, oxygen, vitamins, and minerals.

For psychotropics, alcohol, caffeine, and nicotine are well known. Maybe nicotine doesn't count because there are pharmacological delivery systems for nicotine.

 

[Ducky]

The cinnamon study hasn't been published yet, so we'll have to wait.

The turmeric studies are interesting, but the fact that they are legitimately being researched indicates that they will probably be part of the pharmacopea if they turn out to work.

That olive oil has an NSAID in it isn't really about fighting intractable, incurable, or inevitably lethal conditions.

However, if you are going to count that, then you could also count oleoresin capsicum, the active ingredient in hot peppers. It's great as a linament, and it also encourages mucus production.

I think you also have to add food, water, oxygen, vitamins, and minerals.

For psychotropics, alcohol, caffeine, and nicotine are well known. Maybe nicotine doesn't count because there are pharmacological delivery systems for nicotine.

What's the mechanism for the omega-3 fatty acids? I'm a bit understudied on that subject. How do they affect the tumors directly?

 

[epepke]

What's the mechanism for the omega-3 fatty acids? I'm a bit understudied on that subject. How do they affect the tumors directly?

I don't know. Maybe someone else can help.

 

[Ducky]

I don't know. Maybe someone else can help.

Yeah.

I've googled, but mostly found links on sites I would generally say support some rather woo or quackish ideas. Also, I did find a pub med study about depression in recently diagnosed japanese male lung cancer patients, but I fail to see how they determine the fatty acid's role in that depression. Anyone newly diagnosed with cancer is not going to be all that happy anyway.

I really am open to anything that shows proven promise with cancer. I just can't find anything on point with the omega-3 fatty acid line of thinking.

 

[PatKelley]

Regarding the studies on Omega-3 fatty acids... first off, here is the professor who had done the initial studies and his list of publications:
Ronald S. Pardini
Appears to modulate the prostaglandin pathway in colon cancer cells, cited in this paper about possible preventative effect of Omega-3 in colon cancer.

Appears there are a few studies in the region as well, only can see the abstract of this one, but it points to an apoptosis cascade based on docosahexaenoic acid. Here one can see another whole paper discussing possible mechanisms of action.

The prostaglandin mediation would be in line with other heart-disease treatments regarding anti-inflammitories.



By the way, to cut through the woo, I'd recommend Google Scholar. (Still in beta, but eminently useful already...)

It limits the search to published papers (usually abstracts, if the papers are in a journal database; some require fees to view or obtain copies).

And here is one on cinnamon...with this article describing how the initial supposition was identified and proposed. However, it also carries a warning of woo:

The Essential Oils Desk Reference lists cinnamon as one of the oils to use for diabetes. Coincidence? I think not. Ancient natural remedies are very effective if you use high-grade therapeutic oils. More testing should be done with natural "medicines," even though this wouldn't be profitable for the drug industry.

Tom E. Klassen
Noblesville, Ind.

Chemist Richard Anderson says that his research shows that all of cinnamon's antidiabetic effect is in its water-soluble fraction, not the oil. In fact, some cinnamon oil–entrained compounds could prove toxic in high concentrations, he says.—J. Raloff

"Ancient remedies" are not the answer necessarily, and definitely not what I'd advocate (a return to "magical" thinking). Note the term "essential oils" - again the "rarity" of it is emphasized in somehow giving it power. Simply stirring your coffee with a cinnamon stick would apparently be enough to get the water-soluble chemicals out and into a usable form.

 

[Goshawk]

Here's the cinnamon-diabetes study.

Notice that it does not say, "Cinnamon will cure diabetes." All it says is, "...intake of 1, 3, or 6 g of cinnamon per day reduces serum glucose, triglyceride, LDL cholesterol, and total cholesterol in people with type 2 diabetes and suggest that the inclusion of cinnamon in the diet of people with type 2 diabetes will reduce risk factors associated with diabetes and cardiovascular diseases."

Cinnamon will reduce your risk factors; it won't "heal" your diabetes.

 

[PatKelley]

Here's the cinnamon-diabetes study.

Notice that it does not say, "Cinnamon will cure diabetes." All it says is, "...intake of 1, 3, or 6 g of cinnamon per day reduces serum glucose, triglyceride, LDL cholesterol, and total cholesterol in people with type 2 diabetes and suggest that the inclusion of cinnamon in the diet of people with type 2 diabetes will reduce risk factors associated with diabetes and cardiovascular diseases."

Cinnamon will reduce your risk factors; it won't "heal" your diabetes.

Nope, it won't, and I'm sorry if anyone got that impression from my post. But again, the aid to diabetic sugar highs and lows would really be beneficial to study, and a "solution" that involves stirring your coffee with a cinnamon stick is a lot simpler than going looking for highly refined essential oils. I suppose we could dress it up a bit by providing a crystal-studded cinnamon stick holder and decorated coffee cup with aligned chakras decoration...

 

[Ducky]

Nope, it won't, and I'm sorry if anyone got that impression from my post. But again, the aid to diabetic sugar highs and lows would really be beneficial to study, and a "solution" that involves stirring your coffee with a cinnamon stick is a lot simpler than going looking for highly refined essential oils. I suppose we could dress it up a bit by providing a crystal-studded cinnamon stick holder and decorated coffee cup with aligned chakras decoration...

Hmm. My coffee tastes like total ass anyway, I'm game for trying cinnamon.

 

[Kumar]

Here's the cinnamon-diabetes study.

Notice that it does not say, "Cinnamon will cure diabetes." All it says is, "...intake of 1, 3, or 6 g of cinnamon per day reduces serum glucose, triglyceride, LDL cholesterol, and total cholesterol in people with type 2 diabetes and suggest that the inclusion of cinnamon in the diet of people with type 2 diabetes will reduce risk factors associated with diabetes and cardiovascular diseases."

Cinnamon will reduce your risk factors; it won't "heal" your diabetes.

There can be many stages of any disease. Acute, chronic, degenerative etc. Moreover there can be genetic predisposition also. Upto some stages, diseases can be treated/controlled by different means/systems but it is difficult to treat damaged/degenerated parts as islets in pancreas. Your above post is very much in accordance to what I observed. Other alt.healing agents than modern medicines, do maintained 'complications causing agents/conditions' as lipids, nephropathy, neuropathy etc. under control in diabetic patients, but couldn't maintain normal sugar levels after certain stage of disease. All other tests remain very much within normal ranges except blood sugar levels. It may be either due to- difficult to discontinue medication programe or diabetes is genetically predisposed disease and will be degenarative also after certain stage.

 

[epepke]

Nope, it won't, and I'm sorry if anyone got that impression from my post. But again, the aid to diabetic sugar highs and lows would really be beneficial to study, and a "solution" that involves stirring your coffee with a cinnamon stick is a lot simpler than going looking for highly refined essential oils. I suppose we could dress it up a bit by providing a crystal-studded cinnamon stick holder and decorated coffee cup with aligned chakras decoration...

Cinammon in coffee is quite common in Mexico. They use Mexican cinammon, which tastes a lot better than the cinnamon we normally get in coffee. But aren't there a lot of problems with Type II diabetes in Mexico? I'd be skeptical.

 

[PatKelley]

Only one type of cinnamon was tested, far as I know, and the insulin analogue may or may not be present in the Mexican variety as well. That's why it needs more testing for sure...

 

[ysabella]

Tobacco, or more specifically nicotine, helps control ulcerative colitis. Smoking seems to keep the disease away, and it does look like nicotine patches also work, so maybe nicotine gums and so on can work. Nicotine-infused enemas appear not to work as well.

According to the wikipedia page on nicotine, it's found in tobacco plants and in some other nightshade plants. I think nicotine can be synthesized nowadays, but I'm not sure if that's common or if it's cheaper/easier to use tobacco plants.

 

[neutrino_cannon]

I was going to mention garlic, but appearantly it hasn't been demonstrated to any satisfactory degree.

Blast.

Wikipedia mentions ginger as being effective against motion sickness.

 

[Filip Sandor]

This statement needs evidence to support it.

I am a cancer patient. How would these dietary ingredients combat a tumor that was created by faulty mitosis? I don't see in any of those links anything that looks to me to be an explination of how the cancers are fought.

Also, I would like to see more links from a different source. Every one of those articles is the same web page. Is it reputable? My google skills may suck, but I can't find anything on pubmed or the JAMA with regard to the compounds above that fight cancer.


ETA: I am a multiple Myeloma patient, if that helps the description of how these cancer fighting agents work.

I've read in a few places that oxygen kills cancer. I've also read that DNA damage is what propagates (or causes) cancer. I've also read in more than one place that a special substance called Acemannan which cures certain kinds of cancer in cats... but they don't allow it to be tried on terminally ill human cancer patients because, well, what if it worked.. I think you get the idea??

I have a feeling there just might be more than a few cures out there that actually work for the type of cancer you have, which the multi-TRILLION dollar drug companies are working very hard to keep under cover with their marketting propaganda. Keeping the wool over our eyes actually makes us more comfortable believe it or not, it's much easier to accept the 'fact' that there is no cure than to know there are cures, but the information is not available to you because multi-trillion dollar drug companies want more money.

Do a search on Acemannan and cancer and you'll find lots of interesting information. Also do a search on 'nacent oxygen and cancer' you might find something that will be useful to you. All of these substances are available in a consumable form if you know where to look.

P.S. Close your eyes, try to imagine one thousand BILLION dollars and you just might be a little more convinced that the drug companies aren't out to help you.

 

[ysabella]

Oh, and cranberry juice to help prevent bladder infections by preventing things from sticking to the bladder walls. I was just reading in one of Dr.Dean Edell's books that the juice is better than the pills.

Blueberry juice has the same property.

 

[neutrino_cannon]

Here's the cinnamon-diabetes study.

Notice that it does not say, "Cinnamon will cure diabetes." All it says is, "...intake of 1, 3, or 6 g of cinnamon per day reduces serum glucose, triglyceride, LDL cholesterol, and total cholesterol in people with type 2 diabetes and suggest that the inclusion of cinnamon in the diet of people with type 2 diabetes will reduce risk factors associated with diabetes and cardiovascular diseases."

Cinnamon will reduce your risk factors; it won't "heal" your diabetes.

A good distinction to make.

 

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Aloe, for burns, sunburns etc. Don't ask me how it works, I'm not a chemist. Any chemists know why it works?