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Mystery Spots

William H.

Critical Thinker
W
Joined
Feb 26, 2002
Messages
467
I'd like to visit one of those mystery spots that Randi mentions in this week's commentary, especially to see the illusion of water flowing uphill. A little while ago I came across a site that explains how this one works:

http://www.sandlotscience.com/MysterySpots/MysterySpots.htm

It also has links to various mystery spots around the country, I wish one of them was closer to where I live.
 
There's somewhere in Ayrshire, in Scotland, called the "electric brae". It looks as if things are rolling uphill, just because of the odd topography of the road.

Rolfe.
 
There's a magnetic hill in Moncton, New Brunswick in Atlantic Canada. I haven't been there since I was a young child, so I don't remember the effect, but there's a whole tourist industry built around that illusion.
 
These are wonderful magic illusions.

Knotts Berry Farm in California used to have one. Stupidly they demolished it to make a bungee-jump.

They are amazing, wonderful environmental magic tricks. Like being surrounded by an amazing illusion. Great fun for kids, too.

When led by a tour guide with a sense of humor and timing, the patter involved gets a few big laughs and more than a couple groaner puns.

When properly performed, it IS a magic trick, which is why I'm more than a little miffed that Randi has taken to "debunking" it.

What's next? A debunking of cups and balls?
 
We had one of those places near where I grew up, and my family went. It was a lot of fun. I never thought it was anything besides perception confusion. I forget if it was advertised as "real", though.

Have you done a web search for the Oregon site that Randi is talking about? They advertise it as real, that these affects are caused by a vortex. I see it as different from a magic show, which is _not_ advertised (Blaine nonwithstanding) as somebody making the balls disappear in a interdimentional vortex.

I agree, they are fun places to visit, and I heartily recommend going to one if it isn't too expensive.
 
I remember visiting the Oregon Vortex on a family vacation when I was younger. I don't remember much, but I do recall the height change to be very impressive. A site with a more complete analysis of the Oregon Vortex by the "Oregonians for Rationality" is at

http://www.o4r.org/vortex/
 
Y'know, magicians tell little lies all the time as part of the show, and that's considered part of the entertainment. The Oregon Vortex people make up some mumbo-jumbo about physics laws; Roy Horn tells the audience that this is the tiger's first stage performance. Both are lies, but Randi slams the Oregon Vortex while praising Roy. What's the difference?
 
Agreed.

Magicians surround themselves with mumbo-jumbo all the time, pseudoscientific AND pseudo-spiritual.


What about Invisible Irma the ghost illusion at the Magic Castle?

What about David Copperfield going into a "trance" and "slowing his heartbeat" while walking "through" the Great Wall of China?

What about putting a levitation assistant in a "hypnotic trance" before levitating her?

Mumbo-jumbo is part of "patter". Magicians wear swami turbans, they speak of unseen forces. Their posters feature devils and demons and spirits. They call to unseen forces... all for fun.

Mystery spots (constructed ones, like this one, with a shack) are environmental illusions build by magicians.

I think the main difference is that they are "outsider art", not coming from the magician's secret societies, but instead coming from plain folk. Plain folk who are using the American traditions of roadside attractions, tall tales and observed understandings about the limitations of the human senses and how to fool them.

And entertaining people with them. They aren't recruiting followers and believers. They are charging 5 bucks a head to hear corny jokes and puns and see water roll "uphill".
 
Mort,

That's a great link.

It's wonderful to see how much amazing work went into the construction of the Oregon Vortex.

Don't you get the feeling though that the Oregonions for Rationality are missing out on the joke?


This place is a Tall Tale. Don't they get that?

Next are they going to set out to disprove the existence of Paul Bunyan?

Are they going to picket and yell "It's just an optical illusion!!!"

Sometimes I think we skeptics go too far.
 
The difference is that stage magicians (except those that "cross the line") present themselves as mere, but highly skilled, tricksters, using hidden and closely-held technique. They want you to walk away marveling "how'd he do that ?!?!?". "It's MAGIC! >wink<". The magic is in the not-knowing. They don't characterize their tricks as anything outside the realm of the known natural world.

*Some* of the Mystery Spots want you to leave believing that some mysterious (and non-existant) force is at work--either something outside natural physical laws, or some heretofore undiscovered and unexplainable phenomenon. In other words, they depend on projecting a pseudo-scientific theory, if not an absolutely super-natural explanation. This recurring vortex theme is an example of the pseudo-scientific approach.

And that's a shame, since the marvel of the optical illusion and how the brain can deceive itself is much more amazing, and illuminating to boot.
 
There's a magnetic hill in Moncton, New Brunswick in Atlantic Canada. I haven't been there since I was a young child, so I don't remember the effect, but there's a whole tourist industry built around that illusion.
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When I was eight I went on a road trip with my parents through New Brunswick & Nova Scotia, and I remember that we stopped at that hill. There was a whole line of cars going up it and people all around. My dad was trying to explain the illusion, but I just couldn't see it- I think I may have been trying too hard. To me it just looked like a regular hill with a little stream running alongside. My parents seemed to enjoy it, though.
 
CERDIP,

How is that different than David Copperfield going into a trance and "slowing down" his heartbeat while "walking through" the Great Wall of China, while waiving about a bunch of pseudo-science about the imperminence of matter, and the spiritual trancendence of the Mysticism of the East?

He uses the trappings of Yoga to give legitimacy to a simple penetration illusion.

When did Copperfield "wink" and say that it was all just a trick? If he did, I never saw it.

Do you know that there's no wink at the Oregon vortex? Those quotes seem silly enough to me to be an intentional wink, like an exaggeration that is so extreme that it's just a tall tale.
 
You know, the purpose of a Tall Tale isn't to get folks to believe the con.

What a tall tale is for is to seperate the insiders from the outsider. Everyone telling the tale is IN on it. They'll tell the Tall Tale, not to fool the outsider into believing it's true.

They tell it to fool the outsider into thinking THEY believe it's so. And the trick is to tell it with absolute veracity to the outsider, while making it so outrageous that your buddies marvel at your lying ability.

Whether the outsider believes the story is immaterial. What's absolutely crucial is that he thinks that YOU believe it.

They're having a go at you.
 
Mystery spots (constructed ones, like this one, with a shack) are environmental illusions build by magicians.
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Actually the shack is just one part of the Oregon Vortex. During the tour there were a couple of places throughout the vortex set up for the height illusion. My guess would be that the pictures in front of the shack pop up the most often though because that is when the effect is most noticable.

I'd also like to point out that according to the longer article, unlike what Randi claims in his commentary, the planks are level, it is the slanted ground and obscured horizon that creates the illusion.
 
I have to visit that place. It sounds like a hoot. The creator took the time to make it right. Changing the trees is truely inspired, as is burying the magnets.


Just imagine what you could do now with computer-aided design, previsualization, rf-jamming, and the modern theatre techniques such as lighting, sub-audible sound, etc...

You could give people really subtle uneasy feelings there, and they wouldn't have any idea why.


It's things like this that make me wish I had the time and property and money to build one of these. I could really put together a roadside attraction wonder, with all the attendant mysteries. Situate it near a spook-hill, so that even the drive up has a mystery to it. Cut some crop circles around it for a few years before it opens.
 
Silicon,

Copperfield is one of the Magicians that many consider to have "crossed the line". There is a story in the archives somewhere, I think, that covers this a bit. You're right, there seems to have been no "wink" in his later performances.

I've been to Magnetic Hill near Moncton many many times (I'm from N.S. though I live in Ontario, and Moncton is a normal rest stop for the annual trek home).

It's basically a long dirt road and the surrounding trees and terrain give the impression that you are facing uphill, when you are actually on a very slight downgrade, and the car seems to roll up the hill. Sometimes when I've been there, the illusion just didn't work for me, and I found that highly annoying. The car still rolls, but it doens't seem like it's up hill. Other years, the illusion was quite strong and satisfying. It seems to work better for me in the morning on sunny days; probably the shadows contribute to the effect.
 
I've been to the "Mystery Spot" near Santa Cruz CA, and noticed a few other things contributing to the illusions:

The whole area is populated with tall manzanita trees, which tend to grow on a hillside perpendicular to the ground; that is, not vertically.

Along the path leading to the "cabin" is a fence and numerous lampposts. The fence is slightly tilted, and additionally, the slats are tilted within the plane of the fence. The lampposts are also not vertical.

How they ever got a building permit for this, I have no idea, but it looks real convincing in pictures.

Anyway, at some point, your perceptions are just so screwed up by all this, that you really do feel like mysterious forces are at work.

If you go to one of these places, and you don't want to look like an a-hole with a spirit level and a compass, bring along a souvenir yo-yo from the boardwalk. It is a perfectly reasonable thing to have, and is useful as both plumb bob and a level. Trust your instruments, not your eyes.

I think Fodor's guide says it best: "This attraction should be approached with an appreciation for a time when people were more easily amused."
 
I must say that I LOVED the Haunted Shack at Knott's Berry Farm. It was my favorite thing there.

All this is giving me great nostalgia for that place. I'm going to have to schedule a trip for one of the other Mystery spots.

I think Fodor's is right. Is there anyone over 12 years old who really believes the mumbo-jumbo?

Did this really have to be debunked?
 
electric brae

I live 20 mins drive from the 'electric brae'. It was a source of wonderment for me as a child whenever my dad would take us there and go to the 'bottom' of the brae in the car, turn the engine off, and we would all be amazed as the car rolled slowly back 'up' the hill :)

30 years ago there were quite a few High Voltage electricity pylons running along the countryside in view of the brae, and my dad told me that they were the cause of the reverse gravity situation. Of course, my dad always had answers to the many, MANY questions from his 10 year old son. when I asked him once how birds were able to perch on electric lines without getting a shock, he told me plainly, without any sing of a tongue in his cheek - 'rubber feet son, rubber feet.'
 
William H. said:
I'd like to visit one of those mystery spots that Randi mentions in this week's commentary, especially to see the illusion of water flowing uphill. A little while ago I came across a site that explains how this one works:

http://www.sandlotscience.com/MysterySpots/MysterySpots.htm

It also has links to various mystery spots around the country, I wish one of them was closer to where I live.
Click to expand...

I visited one when I was around 12 years old. It was either in western North Carolina (Cherokee, maybe) or Gatlinburg, Tennesee.

No trace of woo-wooism about the place. They went though the schpiel, showed the illusions and then explained how it worked! Then showed the illusions again. Knowing how it worked did not spoil the effect, so it's not in the same category as what conjurors do.

Some folks even went away not believing the explanation, but I was better brought up than that.
 
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