My One "Paranormal" Experience

[Luke T.]

You are trying to remember a movie and open a book about movies and randomly plunk down your finger. What are the odds of hitting the movie you are thinking of?

A song enters your head, and you start singing some words from the middle of the song just as you turn on the radio. What are the odds that the radio station will not only be playing that song at that moment, but that it will be exactly at the point in the song you were singing?

A mole has been ripping up your lawn. You've spent thousands of dollars on exterminators trying to kill that bastard, to no avail. The mole is still somewhere out there. One day you are cleaning out the woodshed and find an old Jarts set. Just for the hell of it, you toss one of the Jarts outside. Later, when you retrieve the Jart, you find the Jart has impaled the mole. What are the odds?

Sooner or later, a coincidence is going to happen. Thousands of near-misses, and then that one hit. It could be a book, a Jart, a song, a raindrop, a penny, a thunderbolt.

 

[fls]

so - what about you? Ever had one occasion when something happened that was really odd?

I've had numerous occasions when something happened that was really odd. Which in a way makes me less likely to respond - how to choose just one, less likely that it has been rehearsed into a coherent story, having to deal with claims of "you just don't realize you have paranormal powers", etc.

I happen to be very intuitive (from a cognitive/psychological perspective), have sleep paralysis and hypnagogic hallucinations, and be a lucid dreamer. I have been abducted by aliens, read my friends' minds, answered questions before they were asked, predicted future events that came to pass, seen ghosts, and healed others. In no case do I think that any of these experiences were generated from a source outside of my mind, although I cannot always figure out where they came from.

I just wrote a description of one of my lucid dreams in another thread.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2036999#post2036999

I had a dream that my great aunt Ester and my uncle Bruno came to visit me to tell me that she was going to die. Two days later my mom told me the news that she had died that day.

Less to do with me....my mother wrote several songs to go with some of A.A. Milne's verses from When We Were Very Young - just to sing to me and my siblings at home. Twenty years later, I was listening to the radio and heard them playing the exact same songs selected from a newly recorded CD. We could find no connection at all between my mother and the artist that recorded the music.

Similar to the OP. My husband was trying to remember the source of a quote. I did not know the quote. I pulled out Bartlett's Quotations, opened it up, and the first quote I saw was the one he was looking for.

Linda

 

[bruto]

Sure it's bound to happen every once in a while, and it's great fun when it does. On the day I realized I was in love with the person who is now my wife, I got a newspaper horoscope that was so on the money it was uncanny. I even clipped it out, though I have now forgotten just what it said and where I put it. I don't believe in horoscopes, but I believe in happy coincidences. It would be far more paranormal if they never occurred.

 

[Luke T.]

Okay. Okay. This is freaking weird.

In my last post I talked about woodsheds and songs and raindrops.

So get this that just happened. Our receptionist tells me her son had to cut down some trees this past weekend. One maple, one plum, and he has cut it all up and wanted to give it away to someone who might need firewood for the winter. Two pickup truckloads.

So he tells his mom to ask me if I know anyone who might need it. He asked her to ask me because of this little grassroots homespun charitable organization I run where we help people in need. He says he will even deliver it.

Great. Offload your wood problem on me. Okay, sure, I'll see what I can do.

Before I get anywhere, the phone rings. A little old lady who lives out in the middle of nowhere called the local paper to ask if they knew anyone who could help her get some firewood for the winter. The editor of the paper tells her to give us a call.

Problem solved!

Pretty weird coincidence, huh?

ETA: I gotta say, too, it is a KICK ASS feeling to answer the phone and hear a little old lady asking for help and to be able to just say, "No problem. I can do that. Free of charge. We are on it. It will be there in the next day or so."

Kick. Ass. Feeling.

 

[Rodney]

Pretty weird coincidence, huh?

Yes, and it raises a question: At what point would you decide to reevaluate your belief that all coincidences are explainable by the current scientific paradigm; i.e., coincidences happen and there is no reason to believe that they happen more frequently than random factors would dictate?

 

[Luke T.]

Yes, and it raises a question: At what point would you decide to reevaluate your belief that all coincidences are explainable by the current scientific paradigm; i.e., coincidences happen and there is no reason to believe that they happen more frequently than random factors would dictate?

For me to reevaluate, coincidences would have to start occuring more frequently than random factors dictate.

 

[Rodney]

For me to reevaluate, coincidences would have to start occuring more frequently than random factors dictate.

Arthur Koestler reported that when researching his biography (titled "The Case of the Midwife Toad") of biologist and coincidence collector Paul Kammerer, he was subjected to a "meteor shower" of coincidences. See -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Kammerer -- How many coincidences would constitute a "meteor shower" to you?

 

[fromdownunder]

Well, I promised to reply, although there is nothing specific to reply to, so here it is:

I think the mistake I made was to read too much into the Forum Header which is Skepticism and the Paranormal, and try to give an example (obviously failing) of a skeptics view of what some would call a paranormal event. Note that from my first post I used the term "paranormal", not paranormal.

So as not to completely waste bandwidth, I would ask those who thought my event would not be considered paranormal by some people, would you consider somebody claiming one experience of meeting an ET paranormal, simply because it was not repeatable, as mine is probably not. (i.e., they met one alien, but it never happened again?)

If not, why not? Just interested in finding out what you would all specifically define as paranormal, because to me, if it was repeatable, it would not be paranormal, by definition. It could be studied, and eventually a valid theory for the events which occured, theoretically at least, could be developed.

Norm

 

[jmontecillo01]

Coincedence?

With this story, I'll leave this up to you to decide.

Way back in 2000, I was taken into a mental institution because I had a relapse. As I had said in other threads, I suffer from visual/auditory hallucinations.

During that relapse, I saw a boat with a gapping hole and two buildings shaking, finally falling to the ground. Now, I saw the connection between USS Coles and the twin towers. But the thing is that I saw the connection after the event. Is it merely coincedence or something that is paranormal.

We tend to see things that happen after the event. Like those that say, this is what Nostradamus is saying. So my conclusion is that it is merely coincedence.

Way back 1984, my house burnt down. Only 1 book survived. That book, a childrens book, is titled "The value of foresight. The story of Thomas Jefferson". Jefferson claimed that his watch talks to him and therefore, he suffered from auditory hallucinations. He claims that it helped in his decisions. The legacy of Jefferson. The declaration of independence, the constitution, the bill of rights and the Luisiana purchase which more than doubled the size of the United States. Americans now enjoy the fruits of the effort of Jefferson. Also, his house in Monticello, Virginia burned down. Wierd isn't it?

Being an agnostic, I take this to be just coincedence, but I do not discount the possibility that it is more than that.

 

[bruto]

Well, I promised to reply, although there is nothing specific to reply to, so here it is:

I think the mistake I made was to read too much into the Forum Header which is Skepticism and the Paranormal, and try to give an example (obviously failing) of a skeptics view of what some would call a paranormal event. Note that from my first post I used the term "paranormal", not paranormal.

So as not to completely waste bandwidth, I would ask those who thought my event would not be considered paranormal by some people, would you consider somebody claiming one experience of meeting an ET paranormal, simply because it was not repeatable, as mine is probably not. (i.e., they met one alien, but it never happened again?)

If not, why not? Just interested in finding out what you would all specifically define as paranormal, because to me, if it was repeatable, it would not be paranormal, by definition. It could be studied, and eventually a valid theory for the events which occured, theoretically at least, could be developed.

Norm

If it were repeatable it would not be paranormal, I agree. But I'm not sure that it then follows that if it is non-repeatable it is. A coincidence is by its own definition not repeatable in the sense of being something that will either happen again the same, or something that can be produced at will. And yet there's plenty of reason to believe that coincidences in general are inevitable, and normal.

As for meeting an extraterrestrial, I'm not sure why that would be considered paranormal at all, if it were true. Of course verifying it is iimpossible if it happens only once, but whether or not it can be verified, it either happens or doesn't. If it doesn't, it doesn't . If it does, there's no inherent reason why the event would defy scientific principles, or violate our idea of natural laws. People can, in theory, fly out into space and eventually might visit other planets if there are any to visit. Extraterrestrials could, in theory, do the same if they exist.

 

[Minkster]

the most recent co-incidence came when watching a comedy sketch show in the UK where they have a fake quizz show where the contestants shout out random words to which some 'win' for no apparent reason (yes, its a bit surreal).

Anyway, as they started reeling out the words I said to my girlfriend - out of the blue - 'Crevice'. Hey presto - seconds later, one of the contestants shouted out 'Crevice'!

Hardly the most mainstream word in the world.....

 

[Luke T.]

Way back 1984, my house burnt down. Only 1 book survived. That book, a childrens book, is titled "The value of foresight. The story of Thomas Jefferson". Jefferson claimed that his watch talks to him and therefore, he suffered from auditory hallucinations. He claims that it helped in his decisions. The legacy of Jefferson. The declaration of independence, the constitution, the bill of rights and the Luisiana purchase which more than doubled the size of the United States. Americans now enjoy the fruits of the effort of Jefferson. Also, his house in Monticello, Virginia burned down. Wierd isn't it?

From middle age on, Jefferson needed glasses to read. From middle age on, I have needed glasses to read. Jefferson was a Deist. I am a Deist. Thomas Jefferson studied Latin. I studied Latin. Weird, huh?

 

[fromdownunder]

So, it is coming down to this:

Is there an agreed definition on the Randi forums as to what paranormal actually is?. I assume that it is at a minimum, something that could never be explained by rational means, but must be partially repeatable at least in some form by one or more persons (otherwise it can be described as coinincidence).

Or is a bit like atheist v agnostic arguments (and I have been in too many of these over too many years), where the discussion finishes up not so much about what each group of groups (sic) thinks, but never even reaching an agreed definition of the words in the first place?

Norm

 

[jmontecillo01]

Jefferson

From middle age on, Jefferson needed glasses to read. From middle age on, I have needed glasses to read. Jefferson was a Deist. I am a Deist. Thomas Jefferson studied Latin. I studied Latin. Weird, huh?

As I said, I am an agnostic and I take them to be mere coincedences. But if there is a reason for those "coincedences", then I beleive that we have to have the foresight to be able to shape our future.

I already mentioned this in one of the threads but this is the first statement that I "heard" way back 1988. "This is the most important period in mans history. This is the time he is learning about information. Information that will shape the mind and character of his children'".

We now have this tool to shape and influence our children to use reason in their lives.

That is not the end of the story.

I also heard "From that little mountain he would come down, with the law that would guide all mans law, that all men are created equal".

Moses, Jesus,?

I am not an American so I did not know much about Americans founding fathers. The story of Jefferson made me to study Americas history. The declaration of independence has the first statement says "All men are created equal".

Monti cello - little mountain. Jefferson authored the declaration of independence from his home in Monticello, Virginia.

 

[bruto]

So, it is coming down to this:

Is there an agreed definition on the Randi forums as to what paranormal actually is?. I assume that it is at a minimum, something that could never be explained by rational means, but must be partially repeatable at least in some form by one or more persons (otherwise it can be described as coinincidence).

Or is a bit like atheist v agnostic arguments (and I have been in too many of these over too many years), where the discussion finishes up not so much about what each group of groups (sic) thinks, but never even reaching an agreed definition of the words in the first place?

Norm

There does seem to be a kind of dilemma here. If a thing must be repeatable in order to be tested for authenticity, can it also be paranormal? If it could be tested and verified, would it cease to be paranormal, and become just "weird" or "normal but not yet explained?" Perhaps paranormal iinvolves a logical contradiction, like saying the impossible happens. Only the formerly impossible happens. That could explain why paranormal things don't seem actually to exist.

 

[fromdownunder]

Thanks, bruto, that's my dilemma.

Norm

 

[Dicon]

Anyway, as they started reeling out the words I said to my girlfriend - out of the blue - 'Crevice'. Hey presto - seconds later, one of the contestants shouted out 'Crevice'!

This is slightly, slightly, slightly similar to something that happened to me a few years ago, and I have a theory about what may have been behind it.

In my case, I was listening to my regular radio station (KEXP in Seattle, yo!) during my morning commute. Out of nowhere, a song that the DJ had *not* played became stuck in my head ("World Destruction" by Time Zone, if anyone is taking notes). It was with me the rest of the morning, that afternoon, into the night, and was still on my mind 24 hours later when I was driving to work the next day. And at this point, I'm sure you can all guess the next part... yes, the DJ played "World Destruction" and the time-space continuum became unraveled.

OK, so I embellished that last part.

But it did make me wonder what may have caused the DJ to play the same 20 year-old song that I had been thinking of for the last day. My theory is that on the first day, he played or said something that reminded both him and me of that song. For all I know, he may have been humming it for 24 hours just like me, so the next day he acted on it by pulling from the studio library and playing it. The end result was two people having the same reaction to some obscure stimulus.

The game show could have been a similar scenario. Maybe one of the random words shouted out by the contestants started some odd chain reaction train-of-thought in you head that led you to the word "crevice," and lo and behold it followed the same path for the contestant. But hey, it's just my theory... though I demand that it be taught in public schools.

 

[osmosis]

Only the formerly impossible happens

Not to nitpick, but the impossible never happens. If anything ever happens, it was never impossible.

 

[PBTree]

Actually, chillzero, my memory is pretty absolute about this one. And so is my daughters. But only because it is the only really wierd thing that has ever happened to me to this extent (I mean by this that life itself is basically wierd).

It is an event etched in me that I will never forget. I genuinely had no idea what the title was. Obviously had it not started with a letter from about g-s, it could never have happened, because I simply opened the book in the middle 1/3rd, and would have regardless of what the title actually was.

Please note the last paragraph of my OP. I take the paranormal with a grain, actually, a pound of salt. With six plus billion people on this mudball, coincidences, or what some would describe as paranormal, probably occur 100's of times per day.

I called it my one "paranormal" experience to fit the theme of the forum I was posting on and wondered if any other people had similar, well, curious, wierd ("paranormal") events, happen to them.

But trust me, it happened.

Norm

First line of this quote tends to cancel out the first part of your original post.


Another downunderite.....

 

[bruto]

Not to nitpick, but the impossible never happens. If anything ever happens, it was never impossible.

Point taken, up to a point. In a practical sense at least, some things become possible that once were not. 30 years ago we couldn't have engaged in this foolishness at all.