Muslims Self-Criticism

[zenith-nadir]

You think there are good Muslims out there? I came to that conclusion about Jews years ago.

While you play your silly "race game" I shall continue to post op-eds by muslims who are beginning to criticize islamofascism. If you have an issue with that too bad. Islamofascism is hurting Islam, recognizing a problem is the first step to fixing the problem.

 

[a_unique_person]

While you play your silly "race game" I shall continue to post op-eds by muslims who are beginning to criticize islamofascism. If you have an issue with that too bad. Islamofascism is hurting Islam, recognizing a problem is the first step to fixing the problem.

They are only beginning are they? Must be news to them.

 

[a_unique_person]

From what I recall, there are a lot of Russians who don't want a war with Chechnya, either, or approve of the slaughter of Chechnyans.

 

[Skeptic]

This is all very nice, however, it should be noted that the cleric in question did not bother to mention israel, I mean the zionist entity, I mean occupied Palestine, in his list of places where Muslims engage in terrorism. Gee, what a surprise; apparently, as long as you're killing jewish children, there's no need to call that terrorism, let alone stop it.

Also, it should be noted to killing schoolchildren is not new with terrorism: Arafat's PLO started that hot trend over 30 years ago, in its attack and butchery of children in a school in Ma'alot, israel. Perhaps the Nobel Peace Prize winner can give the Chechniyan rebels a few tips.

 

[Mycroft]

You think there are good Muslims out there? I came to that conclusion about Jews years ago.

You came to the conclusion there are good Jews out there? How very white of you. Do you want to tell us there are good blacks or good Koreans too? Is there any other race you want to congratulate for having "good" members?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Mycroft
At the same time, I don't think we should let the fear of being called bigoted keep us from addressing real issues that need to be addressed.

Does that work for every religion?

 

[Mycroft]

Does that work for every religion?

That's a real stumper, E.J. Why don't you look at the full post you quoted from and see if you can figure it out?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Mycroft UTG
That's a real stumper, E.J. Why don't you look at the full post you quoted from and see if you can figure it out?

Memo to self - UTG doesn't do yes or no.

 

[Mycroft]

Memo to self - UTG doesn't do yes or no.

Since you're so very fond of yes/no questions, let me pose one to you:

Was I overestimating your intelligence in assuming you could figure it out for yourself?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Originally posted by Mycroft
Was I overestimating your intelligence in assuming you could figure it out for yourself?

One of the reasons I asked is because you are well known for making the following statement. 'Muslims evolving into two-headed monsters!!!'

In the light of your response to my simple question, when you made that sick statement, it seems you really wanted people to figure out that you did indeed mean all Muslims.

If you don't want to clarify your statements and claims, such as who the famously Unidentified Tiny Group are, don't.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong
One of the reasons I asked is because you are well known for making the following statement. 'Muslims evolving into two-headed monsters!!!'

I follow you so far...

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong
In the light of your response to my simple question, when you made that sick statement, it seems you really wanted people to figure out that you did indeed mean all Muslims.

Nope, you lost me. First, your question was "Does that work for every religion?" You didn't specify Islam or Muslims. Second, my response was to direct you back to the post you were confused about. Apparently you decided to ignore that advice and look elsewhere, so whatever conclusions you come to is not based on my response.

Maybe you should rephrase that paragraph for clarity.

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong
If you don't want to clarify your statements and claims, such as who the famously Unidentified Tiny Group are, don't.

And likewise, if you don't want to answer simple yes/no questions, don't. Though if you come to the conclusion that I don't like them, then by the same reasoning you don't like them either.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Muslims Self-Criticism?
Sorry ZN that is an oxymoron, any critique is viewed (evidently ) as heretical to Islam.
As far a Judaism, the whole enterprise is loaded with self-criticism and argument, that's it's heritage.

a seemingly better rounded intellectual approach to the thought process of trying to define the universe, Philosophically.

Till <-----Not a Muslim, <---- not a Jew, just a skeptic.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Muslims Self-Criticism? Sorry ZN that is an oxymoron, any critique is viewed (evidently ) as heretical to Islam. As far a Judaism, the whole enterprise is loaded with self-criticism and argument, that's it's heritage. a seemingly better rounded intellectual approach to the thought process of trying to define the universe, Philosophically. Till <-----Not a Muslim, <---- not a Jew, just a skeptic.

You have learned much grasshopper...
Salman Rushdie proved one is only a few paragraphs away from a fatwa condemning you to death...

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Mycroft
Nope, you lost me. First, your question was "Does that work for every religion?" You didn't specify Islam or Muslims. Second, my response was to direct you back to the post you were confused about. Apparently you decided to ignore that advice and look elsewhere, so whatever conclusions you come to is not based on my response.

Firstly, I did not specify any particular religion for the very simple reason that I was seeking to clarify if you meant every religion.
Secondly, I did not ignore your advice

Maybe you should rephrase that paragraph for clarity.

Fine. Did you mean 'all Muslims' when you stated 'Muslims evolving into two-headed monsters!!!' or just the poor unfortunates involved?

And likewise, if you don't want to answer simple yes/no questions, don't. Though if you come to the conclusion that I don't like them, then by the same reasoning you don't like them either.

Unfortunately, that misrepresents matters somewhat. I made no mention of whether you liked anything or not.

When I asked 'Does that work for every religion?' it was because I read your post and wanted to clarify that you meant every religion. Instead of clarifying, you directed me back to the words I sought clarification about. A technique interestingly in line with your refusal to define who the UTG (Unidentified Tiny Group) are.

Defining terms when making claims often aids understanding.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong
Firstly, I did not specify any particular religion for the very simple reason that I was seeking to clarify if you meant every religion.
Secondly, I did not ignore your advice

Very good, then! You must have found the answer you were looking for. That is unless I've underestimated your intelligence, you declined to answer that simple yes/no question.

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong
Fine. Did you mean 'all Muslims' when you stated 'Muslims evolving into two-headed monsters!!!' or just the poor unfortunates involved?

Well, encouraged by your success in answering the first question all by yourself, I will now refer you back to that thread to find the answer to this one. I think a careful reading should be able to tell you exactly how many Muslims I was trying to say were evolving into two-headed monsters. This is a little more tricky as my unfortunate and poorly done use of humor will work against your natural tendency towards literalism. However, I feel you are up to the task and capable of accomplishing this. Do let me know if I've overestimated your intelligence, and I'll give you a hint.

I won't even ask what it was about my response to the first question that you took to have any meaning on the other thread. It seems obvious that was just a brain-fart on your part and best ignored.

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong
Unfortunately, that misrepresents matters somewhat. I made no mention of whether you liked anything or not.

My fault. I equated your statement ”doesn't do yes or no”to mean doesn't like. I forgot that your sense of literalism would have you making an issue of this unimportant distinction. Let me correct my statement to say you don't always do them either.

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong
When I asked 'Does that work for every religion?' it was because I read your post and wanted to clarify that you meant every religion. Instead of clarifying, you directed me back to the words I sought clarification about. A technique interestingly in line with your refusal to define who the UTG (Unidentified Tiny Group) are.

In line with...exactly so! You should learn to think for yourself, develop your reading comprehension skills and not always depend on others to point out the obvious for you. I have faith that no matter how dense you make yourself appear to be, you are capable of understanding the meaning behind simple sentences and paragraphs. With enough practice and a little more confidence, you might even someday be able to join the conversations at the same level as the rest of us.

 

[rikzilla]

Full text: Siege Prompts Self-Criticism in Arab Media - Sat, Sep 04, 2004 Finally, some muslims have THE BALLS to admit the truth and say it in print in Arab newspapers. Terrorist sons are an end-product of a corrupted culture and Muslims worldwide are the main perpetrators of terrorism and Islam is being harmed by it. I hope a turning point will be reached in my lifetime where the word muslim does not bring up thoughts of 9-11, bus bombs and beheadings.

In other news: Fire is hot!

Film at eleven....

 

[a_unique_person]

You have learned much grasshopper...
Salman Rushdie proved one is only a few paragraphs away from a fatwa condemning you to death...

You self satisfied, smug, piece of ignorance. Salman Rushdie showed that extremists anywhere will comdemn you to death for nothing. I have heard and read many pieces of Muslim self criticism, from the moderates, of course.

I do wonder how such intelligent and gentle people can be believers in god, and not accept that he doesn't exist, but that affliction seems to be everywhere.

 

[a_unique_person]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/09/20/1095651245879.html?from=storylhs

[/quote]

At the community level, Muslims are denouncing terrorists continuously in addresses to social, professional, religious and school groups. We are regularly contributing to multi-faith services held after the terrorist tragedies. Two Muslim women I know were so distressed by the events in Russia that they ran through the phonebook, calling Russian Orthodox priests to express their sadness and condolences.

This is not the profile of a community paralysed by a siege mentality, or suffering from any twisted fidelity to murderers who happen to be Muslims. In fact, there is little else that can reasonably be expected of Australian Muslims to clarify their stance.

Yet still, we face the same old allegation that we are silent, and that we prevaricate in our condemnation of murder.

Enough. It is sufficiently offensive that terrorism is committed in our name. It is sufficiently frustrating that we are repeatedly expected to condemn crimes in which we are not remotely complicit. By now, our unconditional opposition to terrorism should be trite. For how long must we shout into the wind?

Let there be no doubt. Australian Muslims are speaking. The question is whether anyone is listening.

[/quote]

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
You self satisfied, smug, piece of ignorance. Salman Rushdie showed that extremists anywhere will comdemn you to death for nothing. I have heard and read many pieces of Muslim self criticism, from the moderates, of course.

Well, Salman Rushdie showed that Muslim estremists anywhere will condemn you to death for nothing. While it's certainly true that the actions of extremists shouldn't be used to smear the moderates, we should also remember we're not talking about Buddhists here.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I do wonder how such intelligent and gentle people can be believers in god, and not accept that he doesn't exist, but that affliction seems to be everywhere.

Uhm, are you referring to Muslims? If so, it seems odd to simultaneously praise them while bashing them for a defining characteristic.

At the community level, Muslims are denouncing terrorists continuously in addresses to social, professional, religious and school groups. We are regularly contributing to multi-faith services held after the terrorist tragedies. Two Muslim women I know were so distressed by the events in Russia that they ran through the phonebook, calling Russian Orthodox priests to express their sadness and condolences.

Wow, that's very encouraging. I bet if they organized a march and got reasonable attendance that not only would they get the media attention they need, they just might get the attention of the radical Muslims that are the problem and create a very positive dialog in the Muslim community. Wouldn't that play great on Al-Jazeera?

 

[Elind]

Originally posted by
God damn, hallelujah. An Arab or Muslim finally mentions that most terrorists are arabs and muslims? Like we needed telling. But they are bringing tremendous shame, not only on their region and religion, but upon humanity in general.

Such acts as were just committed in Russia should make us all ashamed to be humans. If a benevolent Alien power came to visit us, and saw such things, how could we defend ourselves as a race? We simply could not.

It's not a matter of bringing shame on their religion (and cultures that fundamentally derive from the religion); the CAUSE is the TRUE religion. Those, Muslims, who are able to be critical are most likely not very seriously religious, and a small minority.

Kind of hard to see a solution when the Khoran has innumerable references to killing infidels in return for sex for example; without them all becoming Buddhists, or atheists.

Not bloody likely - so off to war we go until it's all dust.