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Cont: Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla II

Andy_Ross said:
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
The EU should be abolished and sovereignty returned to individual countries, so that governments can better represent their people
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Divide and conquer. This is and always has been the key. Get people to think they would be better off if their petty differences took priority over what is good for everyone. Ask the British if they think leaving the EU was a good idea?

A great scene in the West Wing shows the benefits of the WTO. 20 second clip. https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx-YWbaoYy-5l3TwIaG7OBX_MtDntEV3cR?si=Bs7O_96hfC2-XJF3

That comes from this 5 minute scene.

 
The Great Zaganza said:
West Wing was pure Propaganda.
It's quite possibly a key reason why we have Trump
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You think so? Or are you being sarcastic? Do you disagree with the point that Toby was making? Do you disagree with my point?

Do you agree with Elon Musk that the countries in the EU would be better off without the EU? Go back to 25 different currencies, add border guards on every border? Tarrifs and duties on all goods? How many wars has there been between EU members?
 
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Seriously, the Entire message of The West Wing was that Good Intentions and Compromise with Republicans are all that matters. Everyone was smart and literally got nothing done.

And yes, Toby is wrong, trapped in the fantasy that Free Trade will bring Democracy to Russia and China. Russia and Ukraine had massive trade, and that didn't stop the war.

Only countries with massive Comparative Advantage want Free Trade; every highly industrialized and rich country got that way by restricting trade to benefit its own industry.
The demand that poor countries allow Free Trade is what keeps them poor and unable to develop their own economy.

Free Trade is BS
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
Seriously, the Entire message of The West Wing was that Good Intentions and Compromise with Republicans are all that matters. Everyone was smart and literally got nothing done.

And yes, Toby is wrong, trapped in the fantasy that Free Trade will bring Democracy to Russia and China. Russia and Ukraine had massive trade, and that didn't stop the war.

Only countries with massive Comparative Advantage want Free Trade; every highly industrialized and rich country got that way by restricting trade to benefit its own industry.
The demand that poor countries allow Free Trade is what keeps them poor and unable to develop their own economy.

Free Trade is BS
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Absolutely not true. And Toby didn't say that. He said "free trade stops wars." Which is much different than your strawman. And as much as wealthy nations take advantage of poorer nations, there is undeniable evidence that the trade benefits both.
 
Dabop said:
Most of the places road trains go to, robots would be a joke....
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I'm not sure it's most of the places. Some, absolutely. But I think most of a road train's journey is along dry, open country roads.

Dabop said:
in many cases, 'runarounds' around washouts and the like come and go on a regular basis- randomly- you can't just 'program a route'....
Worse, in many cases they run on dirt roads that LOOK identical to the surrounding dirt countryside- something I suspect would blow a robot trucks tiny mind...
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Okay, so are you "programming a route" or are you reacting to the surroundings?

Robot trucks do both.

Note that the autonomous mining trucks used in the Christmas Creek mine (and some others) are almost entirely pre-programmed. Autonomous road vehicles have to be able to both follow a route, and react to their surroundings.
 
arthwollipot said:
I'm not sure it's most of the places. Some, absolutely. But I think most of a road train's journey is along dry, open country roads.


Okay, so are you "programming a route" or are you reacting to the surroundings?

Robot trucks do both.

Note that the autonomous mining trucks used in the Christmas Creek mine (and some others) are almost entirely pre-programmed. Autonomous road vehicles have to be able to both follow a route, and react to their surroundings.
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Dry country dirt roads- until its the wet season lol.....
(I know it doesn't happen a lot, but it DOES rain up here, and when it does..... well you need to be able to wield a shovel and a winch....

And like I said- programming a route can be useless, because the roads often 'shift' around, as one section get 'chewed out' drivers will drive next to it instead (because its smoother) and the road gradually moves away from its original position....
Mines maintain their roads (and many of those automated mining trucks are following 'beacons' rather than GPS or visual cues btw- lol, I have personally worked in some of those mines and even on some of the trucks fitting fuel monitoring equipment) their 'self driving' capabilities are little more than 'follow the IR 'trail' with cued stopping points...

And I both live and drive up here.... I KNOW what the roads get like in the wet season....even 4wds can get stuck, let alone cars....
That's why if you come to my place, there's the little Corolla (inherited lol- and dry weather only), two 4wds (the cruiser and the lux) and the Merc tilt-tray (its got a 18 tonne max capacity winch and a diff lock on it, not 4wd, but next best thing to it)

1765086652301.png
Seriously- most cars can't handle it- and robocars??? PMSL- yeah right.....
As for self driving road trains- we will have flying cars long before that even happens out here... the tech is decades away from being able to handle it....
 
I think one factor that needs to be considered in the idea of "dry open country roads" is when and how they are dry and open. The fact that certain conditions do not occur frequently does not mean they occur predictably.
 
Its actually funny because we do (kinda) know when they are going to happen- wet season starts (rather unpredictably) about Nov (when road traffic on the trucks is also ramping up notably, in preparation for the christmas shutdown) in fact we just got out of a bout of pretty nasty wet weather up this way....

And yes, because of the storms, we had powerlines down (hell my neighbours who are on the grid were running their genny for over a week...), trees down on the roads etc
This was literally only a few km from me out on the 'main road'
1765088254282.png

The traffic wasn't overly bothered- one of the locals opened the gates on both ends of his property and everyone (including the road trains) just used it to dive around it until it was cleared.....
A robotruck would have just sat there- and indeed caused MORE congestion- as how do you tell it to 'get out of the bloody way' so everyone else can drive around it????)

The first time one caused a traffic delay in a situation like this- well this IS rural queensland, and yeah guns are still quite common out here... I suspect it might come back in on the back of a towtruck- shot up, or burnt out.....
(the locals tend to not be the kind to go calling the cops, they are more likely to 'sort it out' themselves.... unfortunately)
 
acbytesla said:
Absolutely not true. And Toby didn't say that. He said "free trade stops wars." Which is much different than your strawman. And as much as wealthy nations take advantage of poorer nations, there is undeniable evidence that the trade benefits both.
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how .. does Free Trade stop wars? You are making that claim with any explanation or evidence, just because you once identified with a character in a TV show.

What you /(and Toby) are doing is confusing Cause and Effect, basically committing a tautology.
Just because Peace of some degree is a perquisite to Direct Trade, it neither follows that Trade prevents wars (it obviously does not, see Ukraine etc.), nor that it needs to be Free Trade. Countries at war regularly trade with one another via proxies.
If you think Free Trade prevents wars, how did World war I and II happen?

Aaron Sorkin, the creator of the West Wing, thought that Democrats should nominate Romney to run against Trump, and wrote a giant op-ed about it. He was always center-right, with nothing but hyper neo-liberalism as his ideology. And the West Wing oozes that in every episode.
 
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Darat said:
Where did that figure come from?
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Grok? "Grok, Elon here, is it true that, let's say 400.000, Europeans have been killed and/or raped by non-European immigrants?"
"That is a very interesting and incredibly intelligent question, daddy, and of course it's true! Let me know if you want that number to be higher. Bye for now, bestest daddy in the world!"
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
how .. does Free Trade stop wars? You are making that claim with any explanation or evidence, just because you once identified with a character in a TV show.
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Because free trade between two countries makes the people in both countries richer. It is economically very stupid to have a war in those circumstances.

Russia is having a war with Ukraine at the moment and it is destroying both countries. Free trade didn't prevent that war because the leader that perpetrated it is incredibly stupid.

China has not been involved in a major war for many decades because its leaders are not stupid and China is much richer than it would be without trade with the West.

Free trade stopping wars is one of the premises of the EU and it and its predecessor organisations have been extremely successful in that regard.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
The EU should be abolished and sovereignty returned to individual countries, so that governments can better represent their people
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You'd think somebody as smart as Musk would have done some research to understand how sovereignty works in the EU.

Of course, he probably knows his premise is false but the EU is currently fining one of his organisations for breaking EU rules.
 
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