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Musings about MMOs & Real Life

I don't see where anyone has suggested that. All that has been said is that leadership roles in MMOs actually seem fairly similar to any other leadership role, so perhaps they could be relevant to cite as experience. No-one has suggested throwing out everything else and only telling people you play games.



It seems you're just proving the point here. You don't like playing with random people who don't show respect, but you find it much better playing in a set group with better communication and leadership. If a person can show that they are able to create a helpful, friendly environment within a generally unhelpful, anarchic world, why should that not be a relevant point when considering them for other leadership roles?

It's also worth bearing in mind that there's probably a good reason that this came up in relation to Eve rather than WoW. Eve is much more of a sandbox world with almost everything that happens being player driven. Organisation and leadership within player groups, and diplomacy and politics between them, are therefore much more important than most MMOs.

I concur.

In a WoW random dungeon, with people you will never play with again, it's easier to replace an underperforming player than help them. Trying to help random players just opens yourself up to abuse. Advice which is unasked for does not tend to go over well.

On the other hand, there's lots of help between guildies and raid members. They're people you have a relationship with, and you face challenges together, week after week.
 
I don't see where anyone has suggested that. All that has been said is that leadership roles in MMOs actually seem fairly similar to any other leadership role, so perhaps they could be relevant to cite as experience. No-one has suggested throwing out everything else and only telling people you play games.

Fair enough - I read the 'primacy' argument into the OP, you are correct. My comment about being careful how to introduce the concept of gaming into an interview, however, I think is pretty important. I wouldn't, for example, mention gaming in an interview my my firm's CEO. He's a crusty 60+ something who can barely use Excel. I would recommend waiting to see if the interviewer looked to be tuned into gaming. Probably likely in many IT sectors, perhaps less so in banking/insurance. It would have to be contextual.


It seems you're just proving the point here. You don't like playing with random people who don't show respect, but you find it much better playing in a set group with better communication and leadership. If a person can show that they are able to create a helpful, friendly environment within a generally unhelpful, anarchic world, why should that not be a relevant point when considering them for other leadership roles?

It's also worth bearing in mind that there's probably a good reason that this came up in relation to Eve rather than WoW. Eve is much more of a sandbox world with almost everything that happens being player driven. Organisation and leadership within player groups, and diplomacy and politics between them, are therefore much more important than most MMOs.

Perhaps - it isn't that I 'dislike' playing with random folks - it adds a certain element of risk and fun to the gaming experience. Unfortunately, sometimes that means I will find an annoying random group - could be rudeness, could be a lack of leadership with people running around willy-nilly (and I lack the experience / chops to assume the leadership role), could be people who as I mentioned, if unhappy with me just 'boot' me without trying to assist first.

It would be interesting to take a sampling of my next several random groups to see how many I found to be 'good', 'indifferent' or 'rude' and see just how prevalent this LACK of leadership really is. It is possible I only remember the bad experiences because they annoy me, and that is clouding my opinion.

As far as Eve is concerned - I can only play one version of crack-cocaine MMO gaming at a time. Only so many 'spare' hours in a day. I'll stick to WoW until it bores me - which if I can't get my DPS up to a level where I'm not treated as a peon in random instances, may be sooner rather than later.
 
Fair enough - I read the 'primacy' argument into the OP, you are correct. My comment about being careful how to introduce the concept of gaming into an interview, however, I think is pretty important. I wouldn't, for example, mention gaming in an interview my my firm's CEO. He's a crusty 60+ something who can barely use Excel. I would recommend waiting to see if the interviewer looked to be tuned into gaming. Probably likely in many IT sectors, perhaps less so in banking/insurance. It would have to be contextual.

Oh, certainly. I think the point of the OP wasn't to suggest that people should jump straight in with their gaming experience, but more to ask why it is that doing so would obviously be considered a mistake.

I think it's related to the whole issue of gaming, and more generally "geek" culture, being looked down on for no apparent reason. For example, see this video, which points out that there's no real difference between fans of gaming or comics and sports fans, right down to the cosplay. Yet the latter is considered not only acceptable but outright promoted as being manly, while the former is considered weird.

Similarly, why is it considered a point in my favour if I mention my experience as a kayak leader, but not leader in a game? They're both just hobbies that are ultimately just as pointless, but one is considered a good addition to your CV while the other would get it thrown straight out.

It would be interesting to take a sampling of my next several random groups to see how many I found to be 'good', 'indifferent' or 'rude' and see just how prevalent this LACK of leadership really is. It is possible I only remember the bad experiences because they annoy me, and that is clouding my opinion.

Well, part of the problem can be that random groups that only spend a short time together aren't really one of the places where leadership is hugely important at all. Organising a guild where you have to manage the needs of tens or hundreds (large alliances in Eve can have several thousand people in them) of different people over a long period of time is something that will require rather more leadership than telling a couple of people what to hit first for half an hour.

The point I was making isn't so much the difference between friendly and unfriendly groups, but the difference between random groups and ones with your guild. The former is almost entirely irrelevant to leadership because you're just spending a short time hitting things have generally have no investment in the players. The difference groups from guilds is not the group itself, but the way it comes about in the first place. As Rustypouch says, it's people you spend time with and have a relationship with, and it tends to be leadership that holds that relationship together. Aside from small guilds made up of people who are already friends, you have a whole bunch of people from different places with different personalities and different goals. A badly managed guild will generally suck to be part of and is likely to quickly fall apart. But a well led guild can be great fun to be part of. The leadership isn't in the small group being told to click on things, it's in the management that allows a bunch of people who enjoy playing together to form those groups at all.
 
I think it's related to the whole issue of gaming, and more generally "geek" culture, being looked down on for no apparent reason. For example, see this video, which points out that there's no real difference between fans of gaming or comics and sports fans, right down to the cosplay. Yet the latter is considered not only acceptable but outright promoted as being manly, while the former is considered weird.

Parent to a psychologist: Doctor, I am worried about my 13 year old son. He talks about football all the time! He just won't shut up about it! :)
 
Parent to a psychologist: Doctor, I am worried about my 13 year old son. He talks about football all the time! He just won't shut up about it! :)

Certain hobbies get the short end of the stick from a social standpoint.

I kind of play the middle ground, i love partying and getting drunk, but i also love my rpg's, and it is kind of funny...

My partying friends, for the most part don't get what i see in d and d. And my d and d friends, don't really get what i see in the party scene.

The key difference being, if i tell the general public me and my friends spent an entire weekend getting messed up and camping, it is met with cheers. If i talked about spending the weekend playing d and d to the general public, weird looks would be given.
 
Certain hobbies get the short end of the stick from a social standpoint.

I kind of play the middle ground, i love partying and getting drunk, but i also love my rpg's, and it is kind of funny...

My partying friends, for the most part don't get what i see in d and d. And my d and d friends, don't really get what i see in the party scene.

The key difference being, if i tell the general public me and my friends spent an entire weekend getting messed up and camping, it is met with cheers. If i talked about spending the weekend playing d and d to the general public, weird looks would be given.

Indeed.

I don't get why obsessing over other people playing a game is perfectly acceptable, but if you like to play a game it's weird.
 
Indeed.

I don't get why obsessing over other people playing a game is perfectly acceptable, but if you like to play a game it's weird.

Yeah in a debate with a friend i used the same kind of logic.

" So its weird for me to describe the actions of a character, but not to shout at people playing a game half way across the world? I mean could you imagine legions of d and d ' fans' screaming ' Take out the wizard you ******* pansy! He is going to screw over the party!' "
 

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