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Most irritating theological argument ever

Nyarlathotep

Philosopher
Nyarlathotep
Joined
Mar 26, 2003
Messages
7,503
Recently, I have encountered a particular argument in favor of God several times, once on this board, a couple of times away from it. This argument is the one that says, at its core, "God must exist because life would be meaningless if he didn't". I have also seen this argument used to justify why several other superstitions must be true.

It is, in my opinion, the most irritating, asinine, stupid argument ever conceived. This argument more than any other makes me want to club the person uttering it like they were a baby seal. Any other argument at least presents a REASON why God (or whatever) must exist, even if that reason is completely flawed. This argument says nothing except that belief in God makes them happy therefor it must be true. Just because something makes them happy doesn't make it true. Lot's of things would make me happy, I would like to be good-looking, I would like to be rich and I would like my son not to have Down Syndrome. All of these things would make me happy. Unfortunately I am not good looking, I am not rich and my son does have Down syndrome, my wishes in the matter not withstanding.

THe next person who says to me "God must exist because life would lose all meaning if he didn't" or any variant thereof gets clubbed like a baby seal.

Rant over.
 
Please don't hit me

"If god does not exist, then life is meaningless.
But life has meaning
Therefore god exists"

Unfortunately you can't counter "but life is meaningless, therefore god doesn't exist" because that's not a valid inference. But you can confound the person making the argument by accepting the meaninglessness of life, or asking them to prove that life has meaning - equally as difficult as demonstrating the existence of god, I guess.

Yeah, it's annoying.

Or you could ask Cthulhu to devour them.
 
Re: Please don't hit me

Kullervo said:
"If god does not exist, then life is meaningless.
But life has meaning
Therefore god exists"

Unfortunately you can't counter "but life is meaningless, therefore god doesn't exist" because that's not a valid inference. But you can confound the person making the argument by accepting the meaninglessness of life, or asking them to prove that life has meaning - equally as difficult as demonstrating the existence of god, I guess.

Yeah, it's annoying.

Or you could ask Cthulhu to devour them.
Click to expand...

I think I will take the Cthulhu option. It won't work any better than the first option but it will at least have novelty in it's favor. Been there done that on the first, more times than I can count (i.e. more than 11:) )
 
The worst argument I keep running into is "but you'd kill yourself without any beliefs," which is a belief itself.
 
c4ts said:
The worst argument I keep running into is "but you'd kill yourself without any beliefs," which is a belief itself.
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Yeah, that's a variant of the argument I am talking about. Just as annoying too. The people using these arguments are so wrapped up in their fantasy worlds that they can't see how anyone could survive without it, I guess.
 
The worst I ever heard (and admittedly, I only heard it once) was essentially: "Look at the martyrs. People wouldn't die for their faith if it was untrue."
 
Nyarlathotep said:
- snip -

....Lot's of things would make me happy, I would like to be good-looking, I would like to be rich and I would like my son not to have Down Syndrome. All of these things would make me happy. Unfortunately I am not good looking, I am not rich and my son does have Down syndrome, my wishes in the matter not withstanding.

- snip -
Rant over.
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I would have to disagree with you. You are very good looking. You are much better looking than Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise, if you want a comparison.

The rich thing, well, don't we all. And I would sacrafice everything unto my very life, except the other people's lives, for the boy not to be Downs, but alas, he is a great kid just the way he is as well.
 
Marquis de Carabas said:
The worst I ever heard (and admittedly, I only heard it once) was essentially: "Look at the martyrs. People wouldn't die for their faith if it was untrue."
Click to expand...

You're right, that one IS more annoying. Luckily no one has tried that one on me yet, but if they do, they are in line for a clubbing as well.
 
Re: Re: Most irritating theological argument ever

Chanileslie said:


I would have to disagree with you. You are very good looking. You are much better looking than Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise, if you want a comparison.
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Flattery, I knew I married you for a reason.

The rich thing, well, don't we all. And I would sacrafice everything unto my very life, except the other people's lives, for the boy not to be Downs, but alas, he is a great kid just the way he is as well.
Click to expand...

True enough on both counts. My point was that what we want is irrelavant, what is..is. What isn't....isn't.
 
Flattery and Nyarlathotep,

Thank you for making me smile on a night filled with otherwise very much "downing" philosophy.

You remind me of myself and my wife and I just want to tell you how lucky you (and we) are.

The conflict between the proactive "I would do anyhting to make my son other than he is" and the accepting "My son is what he is and I love him for it" is . . . well . . . it kills me sometimes, you know?

You are fortunate to have "another similar" to share it with - as am I.

There should be a smiley for this crap, words cannot express it . . .

Graham
 
Nyarlathotep said:
This argument is the one that says, at its core, "God must exist because life would be meaningless if he didn't".

Originally posted by roger: "Then whatever you do, do not click on this link."

That thread was one of the instances of the argument I mentioned. Plus hearing it a couple of times from people in real life. Grrrrr......
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My thread does not infer that God exists because life would be meaningless without 'him'. My thread infers that atheism kills the spirit of morality and life, even if atheists are correct. Do you (or Roger) bother to listen to anything you read which disagrees with your own philosophy? I would suggest that you do.
 
Lord Kenneth said:
I think the worst one is either "you can't disprove it" or "you can't see love either!".
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Those definately rank right up there. Though I have a worse one than "You can't see love", I have honestly heard people say "you can't see air, either!".

AIR!!!

Love at least is an abstract concept that some people have trouble defining, but air?!?!?!?!?!?

the mind truly boggles at what this nit-wit was thinking.
 
Nyarlathotep said:


Those definately rank right up there. Though I have a worse one than "You can't see love", I have honestly heard people say "you can't see air, either!".

AIR!!!
Click to expand...
Luckily, that one's nice and easy to trash. You don't even need to use words.

8-880.gif
 
Re: Re: Please don't hit me

Nyarlathotep said:


I think I will take the Cthulhu option. It won't work any better than the first option but it will at least have novelty in it's favor.
Click to expand...

You don't get the same kind of **chockkkkk** sound, or that great contact shock in the wrist with the Cthulhu option.

Clubbing people can be SO very satisfying.

or ... um .... so I've read.

My favorite frother is the "Your views are based on belief and faith too! You believe that science is true. You have faith that the sun will come up tomorow ..... yadda yadda yadda .... why are your beliefs any more valid than mine?"

I need to work on my overhand wrist-snap some more.


Whomp!
 
I like the one that goes: "For life to exist everything has to be perfect. Everything is too perfect!"
 
Originally posted by lifegazer
My thread does not infer that God exists because life would be meaningless without 'him'. My thread infers that atheism kills the spirit of morality and life, even if atheists are correct.
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First, a number of people have said in this thread that they are perfectly happy being atheists. (And I will now join them in saying this.) You just don't seem to believe them.

Second, suppose you're right about atheism killing some sort of spirit or something, at least for some people. Now what? Should those people pretend that God exists even if they really think he doesn't?
 
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