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Mormonism

GreNME said:
Sure, it's hogwash, and Smith was a scam artist. However, the cultural movement that became the Mormon church was already present and growing, and it's certainly reasonable to assume that had Smith not come along with his story, someone else would likely have come along and formed their own millennialist sect. In fact, others have done just that: the Jehovah's Witnesses are another millenialist sect with similar roots, as are (I believe) the Seventh-Day Adventists.
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There were a lot of them during that time period in particular. It was kind of a "boom time" for that sort of thing.

The religious history of America, again, I say, is some really interesting material. Talk about taking an idea and running with it...
 
justcharlie09 said:
There were a lot of them during that time period in particular. It was kind of a "boom time" for that sort of thing.

The religious history of America, again, I say, is some really interesting material. Talk about taking an idea and running with it...
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"The Millerites were the followers of the teachings of William Miller who, in 1833, first shared publicly his belief in the coming Second Advent of Jesus Christ in roughly the year 1843."
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millerism
 
GreNME said:
What Joseph Smith managed to do was take the common anti-Native-American sentiment, the revivalist/millennialist movements growing at the time, and his penchant for telling tales about his ability to speak unknown languages, and build a narrative of religious exceptionalism that connected his story to old and ancient people in a manner relating to the religious movements he was growing more influenced by.
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You might want to add some Masonic rites and lore to that.
 
GreNME said:
What Joseph Smith managed to do was take the common anti-Native-American sentiment, the revivalist/millennialist movements growing at the time, and his penchant for telling tales about his ability to speak unknown languages, and build a narrative of religious exceptionalism that connected his story to old and ancient people in a manner relating to the religious movements he was growing more influenced by. He chose what were at the time completely unprovable criteria to fill the gaps in his claims, which is where the Israelite "tribe" came from, as well as his fictional "reformed Egyptian" language,
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The idea that Native-Americans descended from the ancient Israelites wasn't even Smith's invention. It was yet another reasonably well-known idea back in the day, seriously debated by educated people. James Adair was one of the big proponents; the link goes to a random article that a person might have read in an old magazine, in Smith's day.
 
shadron said:
You might want to add some Masonic rites and lore to that.
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The Masonic stuff didn't come about until after Smith's brother had joined a lodge, if I recall correctly. But yes, Smith scavenged from all sorts of things to come up with his religious story and structure.

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Pup said:
The idea that Native-Americans descended from the ancient Israelites wasn't even Smith's invention. It was yet another reasonably well-known idea back in the day, seriously debated by educated people. James Adair was one of the big proponents; the link goes to a random article that a person might have read in an old magazine, in Smith's day.
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Good point to make, and thanks for adding that to the list.

It helps to put the start and the growth of the Mormon church (and the other millenialist churches that lasted till today) into the context of the social climate when they began, as this informs and mitigates a more rational (as opposed to cynical) way of looking at the religious sect.

Further, I don't tend to think that every one of the adherents to the LDS (or any) faith are simply rubes who have fallen for some scam artist's long game. Many of them, including many who have claimed mystical experiences, very likely believe with as much surety as anyone who doesn't believe a lick of it that they've touched the Divine, but their belief doesn't typically begin and end there. That doesn't excuse it, but it also doesn't make the people who believe so simple to pigeonhole as gullible or stupid or deceived. Religions are social machines beyond the trickery or deceit of founders or leaders or individuals who do profit from religiosity (of which there are many). Most people, in general, are more drawn to the social machines than they are the skullduggery of the obvious scams or fraudsters.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
Do Mormons really believe that Israeli's were the real native Americans, and the Indians were native Americans who had their skin died, or something?

Or is this just an allegory? I'm having a hard time believing that any sane Human being (Let alone a possible GOP nominee in four years) could possibly believe this.
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As progressive as some Mormons may be, there are still those that believe that craziness.

In August, I traveled to Mexico to visit a bunch of Mayan ruins. One place in particular, Ek Balam, had two extremely rare Mayan carvings of winged "gods." (Here's a picture of them) I kid you not: there was a tour bus full of Mormons who had made the trip specifically to see the "angels," which they considered proof of their beliefs that Israelites came over to the Americas. They also were super interested in carvings at Chitzen Itza that depicted a light skinned guy with a beard that they believed to be Jesus. Here's a good article that talks about the mystery of the "white god" carvings.

I wish I was joking. Mormons are scouring Mexico for confirmation bias.
 
If anyone is really interested in this subject, I'd suggest the book by John Krakauer: "Under the Banner of Heaven". The books about a murder but the entire first half of the book is about Joseph Smith, the founding of the Mormon Church, and Polygamy. Pretty fascinating stuff.

I've read of Mormon archaeologists sent to places in the United States and Mexico to find evidence verifying the absurd myths in the book of mormon. Many of them renounced their faith while on their expeditions.
 
The one thing about Mormons though....they're really nice - good - people. It's actually noticable. I guess belief in invisible creatures has its advantages.
 
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