Morality Does Not Exist

[Merko]

The requirement of man-made rules, as opposed to a sentient, universal presence which acts as a referee.

Still can't quite parse the sentence. Possibly you are trying to say that most people would prefer a sentient, universal presence which acts as a referee. Well, I sure wouldn't, and I'm sure we have a lot of very reasonable people on this board who would side with me here.

Hey, anytime you want to air-drop millions of copies of the PCL-R all over Capitol Hill, hit me up.

I don't see what kind of effect that would have, though. That said, the US political system appears to me to be more sensible in this regard than what is the case for most countries. I refer of course to the different institutions that are deliberately intended to keep each others in check. All democracies have some sort of mechanisms for that, but they are usually weaker. Somehow I suspect that the American 'founding fathers' were not so strong believers in morality after all..

 

[SirPhilip]

Still can't quite parse the sentence. Possibly you are trying to say that most people would prefer a sentient, universal presence which acts as a referee. Well, I sure wouldn't, and I'm sure we have a lot of very reasonable people on this board who would side with me here.

None of whom are probably holocaust survivors, friends of people executed by theocracies, or those who fought against communism.

I don't see what kind of effect that would have, though. That said, the US political system appears to me to be more sensible in this regard than what is the case for most countries. I refer of course to the different institutions that are deliberately intended to keep each others in check. All democracies have some sort of mechanisms for that, but they are usually weaker. Somehow I suspect that the American 'founding fathers' were not so strong believers in morality after all..

Considering the situation, it was a beautifully realized and implemented idealism that didn't involve fascism or monarchism. Unfortunately, like all singular idealisms, democratic individualism has one drawback: decadence irrespect of class. I don't think it is possible to have a government without objective moral beliefs. A society is a whole, individuals the part. The fabric of society is held together by individual sentiments. Morality doesn't originate from social conditioning (although it's influence is heavy in most cases). If this wasn't the case, there would be no progress from primitive to more complex and fair ways of dealing with human circumstance. Without objective moral beliefs, society simply relies on social conditioning to function, which is ultimately doomed to failure, as people will always climb to positions of authority and do one of two scientifically documented things:

1) They are on a mission to revolutionize how people live. This usually ends up involving parades, all kinds of interesting statistics, funny uniforms, general seriousness, and sometimes platform shoes and comb overs.

2) They are on a divine mission to fulfill a personal narrative in the scheme of things. This usually ends up involving profoundly funny uniforms and major seriousness, hilarious tactical descisions, and curious architecture.

 

[Merko]

None of whom are probably holocaust survivors, friends of people executed by theocracies, or those who fought against communism.

I just think you have a whole lot more confidence in this hypothetical moral overlord, than I do. I think we'll just have to get along the best that we can. I think it can turn out alright. I wouldn't be willing take such a gamble..

Without objective moral beliefs, society simply relies on social conditioning to function, which is ultimately doomed to failure, as people will always climb to positions of authority and do one of two scientifically documented things:

That's why I say we need to throw morality out of the equation altogether. If they don't behave, we should always be ready to replace them. The mistake is in assuming that they would be 'moral' to begin with. They might behave, if we keep them on a tight leash.