Moo juice

[meg]

Trakar, I think we are talking about three different things.

Pasteurizing at 145F for 30 minutes,

"Flash Pasteurizing" at 165F for 15-30 seconds

UHT (Ultra High Temperature) Processing, 280F for 2 seconds.

While all forms of pasteurization create a "cooked" flavor (when compared to unpasteurized milk), most people can't tell the difference between pasteurized and flash pasteurized milk.

UHT milk, aka "Ultra Pasteurized" milk, on the other hand, has a scorched flavor that most people can taste and don't like. It is becoming more common anyway, though, because it has a much longer shelf life.

For all the food science geeks out there, here is a cool article from UC Davis about milk flavors: http://drinc.ucdavis.edu/dairyp/dairyp3.htm

 

[genesplicer]

Just remember that cows don't give milk.





You have to take it from them...

 

[rwguinn]

Please tell us that's sarcasm. This is not a question of being pessimistic but acknowledging a risk - one which is pointless and idiotic to take. Honestly, why do this? There is extremely minimal if any added health benefit and clearly a potentially serious risk, even if you "know" it's safe and the risk is modest. Maybe if you have your own cow and are REALLY hard up for cash-? Sounds like something out of a Jack n the beanstalk story.

There is a hell of a difference between acknowledging a potential for danger and insisting on the certainty of it.
Or have you not been reading anything written and referenced here?

But, but...but..it's for free!

But seriously, how big is the risk?
We used to drink a lot of fresh cow milk and my grandparents probably drank it exclusively.
You cannot let your life be ruled and dictated by all kinds of things that might just possibly happen.

My favorite treat as a kid was peaches, picked fresh off the tree, sprinkled with sugar, and smothered in the stuff skimmed off the top of the jug of white stuff grampa took out of the cow that morning.

 

[Checkmite]

If it's free, go ahead and take it.

But do be aware any claims that raw milk is for some reason "safer" or "healthier" for you than pasteurized milk are bunkum, so don't base your decision on any such claims.

 

[Trakar]

Trakar, I think we are talking about three different things.

Pasteurizing at 145F for 30 minutes,

"Flash Pasteurizing" at 165F for 15-30 seconds

UHT (Ultra High Temperature) Processing, 280F for 2 seconds.

While all forms of pasteurization create a "cooked" flavor (when compared to unpasteurized milk), most people can't tell the difference between pasteurized and flash pasteurized milk.

UHT milk, aka "Ultra Pasteurized" milk, on the other hand, has a scorched flavor that most people can taste and don't like. It is becoming more common anyway, though, because it has a much longer shelf life.

For all the food science geeks out there, here is a cool article from UC Davis about milk flavors: http://drinc.ucdavis.edu/dairyp/dairyp3.htm

I'm sure my primary taste difference comparisons are between low-slow pasteurized milk from a small local farm that has five grass-fed heritage breed milkers which primarily supplies the farmer's family and a couple of neighbors, and the store bought opaque water that is sold as milk in most places in the surrounding area. I have done some limited taste testing of similar local farm milks which have undergone the higher heat processes, and the taste and smell is noticeably different and very close to the descriptive I used earlier, "scorched." But, I'm just as certain that I have accustomed my tastebuds to this milk, and that accounts for a considerable amount of the differences I taste in other milks.

This milk is high in fats (almost buttery) and very sweet, the last descriptive I would use would be "bland."

(BTW - I misspent part of my youth in central Kansas,...Russell)

 

[Trakar]

If it's free, go ahead and take it.

But do be aware any claims that raw milk is for some reason "safer" or "healthier" for you than pasteurized milk are bunkum, so don't base your decision on any such claims.

Agreed in general, I don't advocate raw milk but have no problem drinking it when I know the farm and animals. I am however a big fan of flavor, and if you can get fresh, free, flavorful milk instead of the stale, over-priced, scorched industrial product they sell as milk in most stores, I would encourage you to check it out further.

 

[Checkmite]

I've been drinking store-bought milk my entire life and have never once in all that time found the taste disagreeable. YMMV.

 

[Trakar]

I've been drinking store-bought milk my entire life and have never once in all that time found the taste disagreeable. YMMV.

I'm more amazed that you find any taste than that you don't find any taste that is disagreeable!

 

[Amapola]

I'm more amazed that you find any taste than that you don't find any taste that is disagreeable!

I think a lot of it is what you are used to - if you have only ever had pasteurized skim milk from the store then you'll just accept that as milk, because you've never had anything else, not even half and half. Sort of like only living in one country, and not realizing that other people live differently. For some people that is perfect for them, no reason at all why they should change.

I started working with dairy goats when I was 18 so I'm used to something different. I like trying different milks too - it's quite interesting, although you can't always find for example ewe milk at the store, you can find it on the farm from time to time. As far as my cheese making goes, I have even noticed a difference in individual goats! This shows up in testing as well. Some have a higher butterfat, some a higher protein and on and on. The goat I am currently milking has a truly fine milk for making cheese - nice and rich in butterfat with very high protein content.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

Use it to make sauces, dulce la leche, or other uses for which it needs to be cooked. Nothing living in it will survive that. Or make cheese, yogurt, sour cream, that sort of thing, where you KNOW it's got something living in it, because you picked out a culture to add to it.

 

[Trakar]

I think a lot of it is what you are used to - if you have only ever had pasteurized skim milk from the store then you'll just accept that as milk, because you've never had anything else, not even half and half. Sort of like only living in one country, and not realizing that other people live differently. For some people that is perfect for them, no reason at all why they should change.

I started working with dairy goats when I was 18 so I'm used to something different. I like trying different milks too - it's quite interesting, although you can't always find for example ewe milk at the store, you can find it on the farm from time to time. As far as my cheese making goes, I have even noticed a difference in individual goats! This shows up in testing as well. Some have a higher butterfat, some a higher protein and on and on. The goat I am currently milking has a truly fine milk for making cheese - nice and rich in butterfat with very high protein content.

You are probably right. When first married, my wife kept asking why I was so intent upon planting gardens and making deals with local farmers for direct purchase of small parts of their harvest. Why I took the time on weekends going to local farmer's markets, canning, preserving, mixing doughs and baking breads. All of these questions stopped within the first two years of marriage as I addicted her to the actual flavors of real fresh produce, meats and when possible milk, cheese, butter, jellies, etc.. Over the last 40 years or so, we've found that we could maintain this addiction with just a little added effort even when we lived in the hearts of major metropoleis. And while there may, or may not, be any real health benefits to eating fresh foods and home canning of those fresh products for later consumption, there definitely seem to be, at least for us, flavor benefits of the practices. And as you say, our now grown children have picked up this addiction as well.

 

[pgwenthold]

First, ignore all the crap about the great "health benefits" of raw milk. That's all garbage.

Second, if you want to drink it because you think it tastes good, whatever. Recognize that there is an increased risk of problems due to lack of regulation at the source, but it's not like you are playing russian roulette.

Third, don't pay up the wazoo for it. Sorry, it's not THAT good. As others have said, if it's free, then sure, take it.

The biggest problem I have with raw milk is with the scammers that sell it at outrageous prices (like $15 - 20/gal). That's idiotic.

I have related this story many times: when we were growing up, we drank "raw milk" right out of the bulk tank from a local farmer. Actually, I remember vividly going out to get milk. We'd drive over to the milkhouse, fill our jugs, leave a check on the tank, and head home.

Now, the reason we had this arrangement with the farmer is because we paid more than dairy prices but less than store prices. So everyone came out ahead.

Given the milk prices these days, a fair rate for raw milk should be in the $1.50 - $2/gal range, I would think. When milk is on sale, we can get it for about $2.50, and the farmers are getting about $1. People paying $15/gal are getting ripped off.

 

[Trakar]

First, ignore all the crap about the great "health benefits" of raw milk. That's all garbage.

Second, if you want to drink it because you think it tastes good, whatever. Recognize that there is an increased risk of problems due to lack of regulation at the source, but it's not like you are playing russian roulette.

Third, don't pay up the wazoo for it. Sorry, it's not THAT good. As others have said, if it's free, then sure, take it.

The biggest problem I have with raw milk is with the scammers that sell it at outrageous prices (like $15 - 20/gal). That's idiotic.

I have related this story many times: when we were growing up, we drank "raw milk" right out of the bulk tank from a local farmer. Actually, I remember vividly going out to get milk. We'd drive over to the milkhouse, fill our jugs, leave a check on the tank, and head home.

Now, the reason we had this arrangement with the farmer is because we paid more than dairy prices but less than store prices. So everyone came out ahead.

Given the milk prices these days, a fair rate for raw milk should be in the $1.50 - $2/gal range, I would think. When milk is on sale, we can get it for about $2.50, and the farmers are getting about $1. People paying $15/gal are getting ripped off.

I see nothing in your post I'd argue with.
FWIW, I pay $4.00/gallon for the milk I buy to drink weekly and $2.00 a gallon when I buy larger "bulk" amounts (10-20gal) once or twice a year for making butter and cheese. I buy the bulk milk raw and the drinking milk has all been low and slow pateurized by the farmer. I set the price and both the farmer and I are more than happy with the arrangement. About half of the time we end up swapping other produce or baked goods (we have a greenhouse and have fresh garden produce even in the middle of winter) for the milk.

 

[Puppycow]

Of 3 generations of my mother's dairy farming family drinking fresh milk from their farm, the only problem I have been aware of was my brother reacting with hives due to the richness of the "real" milk (us being the townies).

"Richness" causes hives?

I wonder. Could just be a post-hoc guess at what caused the hives. Might have been something else entirely.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

A distant kin of mine works as a state health inspector in California. Knowing that health inspectors and raw milk advocates were often at odds, I once asked him about it.

Apparently the bane of his existence was a handful of raw milk dairies which routinely passed off near-spoiled milk in under the table deals, and he swore were responsible for multiple deaths. They were never able to prove anything though.

I have never seen him so angry.

 

[EHocking]

"Richness" causes hives?

I wonder. Could just be a post-hoc guess at what caused the hives. Might have been something else entirely.

Quite possibly so, but hives can be an allergic reaction to food, and the only (knowable) change was to his diet - farm fresh, unhomogenised milk.

He's never had it since, and we as a family spent a lot of time at the farm.
It ceased when he stopped drinking the farm milk.

On the face of it a fairly safe bet that the milk was the cause - as to whether it was the "richness" of the milk I couldn't say. But that's perhaps the most significant difference between store bought and farm fresh milk, the cream content.

I admit, we didn't think much past - he stopped drinking farm milk and hives disappeared and never came back.
Yes, while we stayed there, we had to buy milk in bottles for him.

 

[dlorde]

UHT milk, aka "Ultra Pasteurized" milk, on the other hand, has a scorched flavor that most people can taste and don't like. It is becoming more common anyway, though, because it has a much longer shelf life.

I've recently been buying ultra-filtered milk, which gets a standard pasteurization, but has an unusually long shelf life because most of the bacteria are filtered out. I don't drink a lot of milk per day, so it tends to be around (in the fridge) after opening for up to 14 days. Even at that point, there is no noticeable degradation.

 

[Tracy Dalziel]

It may well taste good but the health benefits must be marginal (if anything) and the risks cannot be denied. I have an uncle who lived on a farm decades ago and contracted brucellosis from drinking the milk - before it was eradicated here in the UK. He was seriously ill in hospital for several months and thought he was dying and surprisingly the diagnosis was only made when he struck up a casual conversation with a young doctor who also came from a farming family. The rest of the family had also been drinking the fresh milk but hadn't became ill. The doctors elected not to prescribe him anything because the first drugs effective against the disease were still only being evaluated at that time and although he was in a bad way they felt he was over the worst of it by the time the diagnosis had been made. Having said that, he would still drink raw milk. I know a lot of people who take this kind of attitude, especially older individuals - its the same with refrigeration, whenever I warn certain family and friends that it is important not to leave food lying around at room temperature they point out that they've survived till now and coped before the advent of fridges. Yes, most of the time you will get away with doing things like this and I'll even admit to eating yogurts a day or two out of date, however, some people have done for many years until the one unlucky time. Its really up to yourself if you want to risk it but I'd definitely advise against giving the milk to children, the elderly, pregnant or anyone with a feeble constitution.