• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Monkey See. Monkey Do. Oops $12 million.

Belz... said:
Anxiety and emotional harm? I'd call it rage, and request that the teacher be fired with prejudice (and also about prejudice) in addition to a kaching.
Click to expand...
Nonsense about the highlighted. The students didn't suffer $12M worth of harm.

The teacher should be sacked and the school offer an apology.
 
psionl0 said:
Nonsense about the highlighted. The students didn't suffer $12M worth of harm.
The teacher should be sacked and the school offer an apology.
Click to expand...

Maybe not, but the school district deserves $12m worth of punishment.
 
psionl0 said:
Nonsense about the highlighted. The students didn't suffer $12M worth of harm.



The teacher should be sacked and the school offer an apology.
Click to expand...
Um no.

The school should be made an example of, sued and ridiculed nationwide
 
Last edited:
lionking said:
Maybe not, but the school district deserves $12m worth of punishment.
Click to expand...

I assume the insurance company will pay out? School districts in general may face an increase in premiums.

Alternatively all the other school children will get $12 million less in education. This is the problem I have with punitive damages against public bodies*, the consequence falls on the public either with increased taxes or decreased services, probably some of each. Some lawyers will take 30%? of the damages and these children may be sent to private schools and have a college fund. In reality the harm from this particular incident to them is minor.

The appropriate action is disciplinary against the teachers concerned, probably educational for staff. Possibly re-writing of codes and curricula.

* Another example is the $10 billion in damages awarded against Sudan one of the poorer countries in the world for the bombing of USS Cole. The award is to the people from the richest country in the world. All the people injured or killed and the families will be getting benefits which would make them wealthy in Sudan, the damages will save no one from a life of poverty but may maintain many in poverty. The $10 billion is going to come from education and health services to the poor. Who or what is being punished with punitive damages levied against a country like Sudan. Even the costs of defending such cases in US courts is likely to be difficult for Sudan. $10 billion is greater than the annual revenue for the government, for comparison this is like the US having to pay out $4 trillion for shooting down the Iranian airliner that killed 290 people for which $300 million was paid out by the US.
 
Belz... said:
It's not about the harm, as you'd know if you read my post. It's about slapping the school's hand so it doesn't do that again.
Click to expand...

But the school didn't do anything. One teacher acted independently, now the taxpayers of the district have to cough up.

Does it matter that the teacher is black? Is it playful, or still hateful?
 
Thermal said:
But the school didn't do anything. One teacher acted independently, now the taxpayers of the district have to cough up.
Click to expand...

Teachers, on duty, are fully representatives of the school. They are not independent.
 
Thermal said:
But the school didn't do anything. One teacher acted independently, now the taxpayers of the district have to cough up.
Click to expand...

Two teachers.

The school and the district do the hiring, training, and supervision of teachers. They set the norms and expectations for their staff.

The taxpayers, of course, have a vested interest in how their money is being spent. They have the standing to oversee the schools they're paying for, and the responsibility to do so.

These kinds of things don't happen in a vacuum. These teachers were somehow under the impression that comparing their black students to monkeys was okay. I think the entire "chain of command" is implicated in the evolution of these norms. Everyone - teachers, administrators, taxpayers - need to feel the bite of that responsibility. And the shame and chagrin of allowing these norms to blossom in their schools.
 
1. No human being alive in the developed world is ignorant that using ape/monkey imagery to refer to black people is problematic. We can just skip the "Waaaat? Oh lordy me I just never knew this was an issue" game people try and play every time this topic comes up.

2. "Oh but my grandfather called me a monkey growing up I don't see the issue..." Are you the subject of a century long campaign of organized dehumanization based on comparing your race to lower forms of life? No? Then shut up.

3. "KACHING Oh it's all about the money" As noted the odds of the children getting anywhere near the stated amount are nil.
 
Planigale said:
I assume the insurance company will pay out? School districts in general may face an increase in premiums.

Alternatively all the other school children will get $12 million less in education. This is the problem I have with punitive damages against public bodies*, the consequence falls on the public either with increased taxes or decreased services, probably some of each. Some lawyers will take 30%? of the damages and these children may be sent to private schools and have a college fund. In reality the harm from this particular incident to them is minor.

The appropriate action is disciplinary against the teachers concerned, probably educational for staff. Possibly re-writing of codes and curricula.

* Another example is the $10 billion in damages awarded against Sudan one of the poorer countries in the world for the bombing of USS Cole. The award is to the people from the richest country in the world. All the people injured or killed and the families will be getting benefits which would make them wealthy in Sudan, the damages will save no one from a life of poverty but may maintain many in poverty. The $10 billion is going to come from education and health services to the poor. Who or what is being punished with punitive damages levied against a country like Sudan. Even the costs of defending such cases in US courts is likely to be difficult for Sudan. $10 billion is greater than the annual revenue for the government, for comparison this is like the US having to pay out $4 trillion for shooting down the Iranian airliner that killed 290 people for which $300 million was paid out by the US.
Click to expand...

I know a children's hospital that pulls the same guilt trip. Every time someone threatens to sue after their kid dies from negligence the hospital bats its eyelashes, summons tears, and says in a quivering voice "but but but we need that money to save the other children!"
 
I gotta say "Racism is just too big to fail" is certainly a novel argument.

"Oh come on now the schools won't have anything left if we have to stop to pay out money for every racist incident..."
 
Last edited:
JoeMorgue said:
I gotta say "Racism is just too big to fail" is certainly a novel argument.

"Oh come on now the schools won't have anything left if we have to stop to pay out money for every racist incident..."
Click to expand...

They need that money for payouts in sex abuses cases!
 
And it's like the blackface thing. As if not doing it is somehow hard or requires some unreasonable amount of effort.

I'm a really, really white guy ("Whiter then a snowman with a bukakke fetish" - Yahtzee), from the South, had a grandfather who constantly referred to his children and grandchildren as "monkeys" and I take a perverse pride in not being overly and stereotypically "woke" about topics because I don't like the "Holier than though" cause purity that mentality generates... and I still cannot stress enough the absolute bare amount of minimal amount of effort it has taken me in life to be self-aware enough to never use monkey/ape imagery when referring to black people. Like it's not even hard.
 
Last edited:
Emotions run high at Longwood school board session on controversial slideshow

Newsday said:
Emotions ran high at a Longwood Central School District school board meeting Thursday where speakers both supported and criticized a science teacher who last month presented a slideshow with a picture of a monkey next to an image of four black students with captions saying, “Monkey See” and “Monkey Do.”

The educator, Edward Heinrichs, was praised as a “fascinating” and “lovely” teacher by some, including black and Latino students, who said he has always been well-meaning and fiercely dedicated to all students at the district over two decades of teaching. They said he made a “mistake” that should be forgiven.

Others said Heinrichs was kind to them even if they had never taken a course with him. "The teacher in question cared about his students," said Griffin Bell, a recent graduate from Ridge.

But others said his actions must be punished because they caused real, if incalculable, harm to the students who were distraught when they saw pictures of themselves juxtaposed with a primate — a comparison that has historically been used to demean black people as animals who have not evolved into humanity.

The controversy stems from a trip that Longwood High School students took to the Bronx Zoo on Nov. 5. They were taken by another teacher but the slideshow was shown to two advanced zoology classes on Dec. 20 before the December break. The PowerPoint slideshow includes a picture of a monkey with the caption "Monkey See." In the next picture, the students can be seen standing behind each other in size order with their hands on each other's heads with the caption "Monkey Do." The next picture is of a gorilla.

“It scars them forever,” said Beverly Dean, one of dozens of speakers who addressed the school board before a crowd of about 300 people at Longwood High School’s auditorium. “What are we going to do for that student when they are 30 years old and have a flashback?”

But Scott Twining, who said his five children were taught by the teacher under fire, said the slideshow had been a feature of the class for many years and students of all colors were included as a joke, not as a slur meant to harm. “They’re not racist,” he said of the slideshows, adding that he has black relatives and would not hesitate to allow them to be taught by Heinrichs. “They’re meant for fun.”

That address was followed by John Ray, the Miller Place attorney for three families who filed a notice of claim that may lead to a $12 million lawsuit against the district. Ray, who said there “should be consequences for even good people who make a mistake,” drew heckles from the audience when he said Heinrichs’ supporters were dismissing the racial component of the slideshow. He compared the teacher's actions to what he said were other lapses in history...
Click to expand...

The short video of the board session is worth watching.

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/education/longwood-monkey-science-slideshow-1.40457326
 
theprestige said:
Apparently it took a lot of effort for them to set this up. Way more effort than just... not.
Click to expand...

That's the other thing. This wasn't a verbal slip up that, mountains of context aside, might, might have been a nothingburger in some cases, again mountain of context not withstanding.

It was a goddamn Powerpoint Presentation. You can't just Freudian slip in desktop publishing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom