Mission Accomplished?

tamiO said:


Mr. Bush has a whole team of people working on his image and his re-election campaign. I watched a great documentary on HBO a few months back, entitled "Travels with George" made by Nancy Pelosi's daughter. She flew with the press plane during the 2000 campaign and documented George Bush on the road campaigning.

The eye opener for me were the signs the campaign workers provided the people in the small towns the visited along the campagn trail. All those signs the people held up that looked like they had been made at home with magic markers and poster board were actually created by Bush campaign staff and passed out ahead of the cameras.

Every single thing at a Presidential visit is carefully orchestrated for optimum marketing. The reelection campaign started before Bush was even in office.

I can't believe the sign was just what the boys on board wanted, it was carefully weighed and decided by campaign staff. Bush is not involved in the details.

The President is not allowed to actively campaign for reelection until a certain time. So we have these grey areas, this event for example. While legally, he was not actively campaigning for reelection; he did do up quite a production at taxpayers expense and kept soldiers from their family just one. more. day. I am sure it was exciting for them and the extra day passed quickly, but still. It felt so wrong. It was over the top.
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So are you only complaining about bush, or do you recognize that ALL major political candidates do these things? As to the 'quite a productin at the taxpayers expense', there are many ceremonial/formal aspects to his job, he is the President of the US afterall! The position just wouldnt hold the same respect if he was walking around in shorts and a t-shirt. I have no doubt this was a bit overdramatic, but I would say that about many, if not almost all, politians' public appearances and traditions.
 
aerocontrols said:
Re: the cost of staying at sea an extra day.

It's my understanding that the planning for the visit, and the staying at sea was based on the Navy's original schedule to arrive back in port at a particular date. Sailors had purchased plane tickets, families were arriving to pick up sailors and/or visit, etc... based on a particular date of arrival. Would the ship have docked a day early and 'not paid' the salaries and fuel costs that are described? Does the navy have a policy of kicking sailors off boats to give them a day off? Sort of: "Gee, we're sorry you bought a plane ticket to fly home, and it doesn't leave until tomorrow. Have a day off without pay, and take a cab to a Motel 6 tonight"

This scenario seems unlikely, but it seems to me to be very much what is described by the 'docking early would have saved $x' people. Can any Navy people clear up my misconceptions?

MattJ
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If you do not mind, I will offer an answer.

I spent about three years on an aircraft carrier and I can you these sorts of high-profile visits are real pain to the everyday sailor. However, it can be quite beneficial to the senior officers who get the meet the president and show off their equipment and crew.

The whole ship has to be cleaned very good, you have to get your dress uniform all spruced up, get all of the exposed metal polished, wax all of the floors, and if something cannot be cleaned, then paint over it. While I doubt that the visit delayed the arrival, I am sure that it was real trial after a very long deployment because everyone just wanted to berth the ship and go on liberty.

Something like this happened the last cruise I was on. At the time, my carrier set the record for being on station the longest (122 consecutive days) and when we came back the mayor of San Diego was flown out by helicopter while several hundred sailors (including me) spelled out "WE [HEART] SAN DIEGO" on the flight deck. It was cold and windy and we could not leave the flight deck until about an hour after he landed because we had to listen to his speech, applaud, and wave good-bye to him. All, told, myself and the other guys were on deck for about 2.5 hours in the cold and wind. Ugh!
 
Crossbow said:


Sorry to be a further nag, but I think the Top Gun instructors were using A-5's.

A-7's go back a ways, and the Navy started using them in the 1960s.
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Well I have now demonstrated my complete lack of any real knowledge of military planes to the entire forum. At least I got the 'A' part right. You are not being a nag, I was kind of asking anyway. Thanks for the correction.
 
tamiO said:


The eye opener for me were the signs the campaign workers provided the people in the small towns the visited along the campagn trail. All those signs the people held up that looked like they had been made at home with magic markers and poster board were actually created by Bush campaign staff and passed out ahead of the cameras.
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LOL! That is funny...I remembered this story, now


http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/22/bush.boxes/

When the president delivered his remarks, he did so from the floor of a warehouse with American flags in the background along with the logo "Strengthening America's Economy" on a backdrop of boxes. The boxes were stamped "Made in U.S.A."

One problem: The boxes were made in China.

And that was evident despite an effort to hide labels on boxes surrounding the stage. The boxes placed on the side of the stage had "Made in China" labels covered up with white pieces of paper.

"This was the work of an overzealous advance volunteer," said White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan. "It's being taken up with the appropriate people."
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Of course, I assume similar tricks happen in every presidency. Which is why I chuckled at Chuck Hagel's quote.
 
renata said:

Don't accuse me of being a partisan or a hypocrite again without evidence, just to score polemic points, AS....you won't like to see me angry :wink:
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What? Do you turn green and grow big muscles or something?

:D

AS
 
What cracks me up about this thread is that basically you have the President acting like GI Joe, but that's okay... because other people do it.

Well, I guess future presidents are going to continue to act like Buzz Lightyear because there will always be an apologist saying other people do it, until finally the office of President will only be another celebrity, going to big film openings, saying that they're "totally not cool with" the illegal fur trade, emoting that they're "all upset and that" with terrorists... But no-one will care... because other people do it.
 
In fact, considering the amounts of cash blown on Presidential election campaigns, going to relatively few companies, why not try to spread some of that cash around further?

Have a reality show with five candidates, each one getting 'voted off' one by one over four exciting weeks! You could have commerical tie-ins with Pepsi, the new Pixar film, the new Britney Spears comeback album... Think of the opportunities big companies will get to make loads of dosh!
 
renata said:


Something like that ;)


And no, this is not a dare!
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(remembering old Hulk TV series)


Does your shirt rip off, too?





Quick, AS, say something about how bad an idea women's suffrage was or something!!! Think of something!!!
 
With apologies to King Crimson

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last week, the White House had said that such a landing was necessary because the carrier would have been too far out for a helicopter landing. In fact, the carrier was close enough to the California coast for a helicopter landing.

"The ship did make much faster progress than anticipated," White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said Tuesday, when asked about the matter. Still, he said the president "wanted to arrive on it in a manner that would allow him to see an arrival on a carrier the same way pilots got to see an arrival on a carrier."
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Code: 
Spin, it's only Spin
Arguments, agreements, advice, answers,
Articulate announcements
It's only Spin

Spin, it's only Spin
Babble, burble, banter, bicker bicker bicker
Brouhaha, boulderdash, ballyhoo
It's only Spin
Back Spin

SpinspinSpin, it's only Spin
Comments, cliches, commentary, controversy
Chatter, chit-chat, chit-chat, chit-chat,
Conversation, contradiction, criticism
It's only Spin
Cheap Spin

Spin, Spin, it's only Spin
Debates, discussions
These are words with a D this time
Dialogue, dualogue, diatribe,
Dissention, declamation
Double Spin, double Spin

Spin, Spin, it's all Spin
Too much Spin
Small Spin
Spinthat trash
Expressions, editorials, expugnations, exclamations, enfadulations
It's all Spin
Elephant Spin, elephant Spin, elephant Spin
 
a_unique_person said:
With apologies to King Crimson




Code: 
Spin, it's only Spin
Arguments, agreements, advice, answers,
Articulate announcements
It's only Spin

Spin, it's only Spin
Babble, burble, banter, bicker bicker bicker
Brouhaha, boulderdash, ballyhoo
It's only Spin
Back Spin

SpinspinSpin, it's only Spin
Comments, cliches, commentary, controversy
Chatter, chit-chat, chit-chat, chit-chat,
Conversation, contradiction, criticism
It's only Spin
Cheap Spin

Spin, Spin, it's only Spin
Debates, discussions
These are words with a D this time
Dialogue, dualogue, diatribe,
Dissention, declamation
Double Spin, double Spin

Spin, Spin, it's all Spin
Too much Spin
Small Spin
Spinthat trash
Expressions, editorials, expugnations, exclamations, enfadulations
It's all Spin
Elephant Spin, elephant Spin, elephant Spin
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Does King Crimson go through the whole alphabet?
 
My biggest problem with the carrier speech is that first you had people saying "why did he say "major combat" is over? what kinda wishy washy talk is that?". Now you have people saying "didnt he say the war is over on the carrier? yet we still have people dieing". Sometimes I wonder if any of these people are the same......
 
corplinx said:
My biggest problem with the carrier speech is that first you had people saying "why did he say "major combat" is over? what kinda wishy washy talk is that?". Now you have people saying "didnt he say the war is over on the carrier? yet we still have people dieing". Sometimes I wonder if any of these people are the same......
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Actually, I would say he did believe it was over, the level of guerilla warfare has shocked them all. The reason he used those terms is that when you declare an end to war, you are supposed to be releasing all the prisoners, etc.
 
I think you've all missed the reason for concern. It's not that the Bush team was involved, to whatever degree in staging this photo op, it's that when it became problematic Bush immediately tried to push it onto someone else.

If he had just said something like, "Well the mission for those fine troops that were about to return to port was accomplished, and we're all very proud of what they've accomplished." it would have been fine. But no he immediately tried to deny any responsibility.

General Wesley Clark called it correctly, "I think it is outrageous. He blamed the sailors for that and it is something -- an event -- that his advance team staged. I guess that next thing we are going to hear is that the sailors told him to wear the flight suit and prance around on the aircraft carrier. This is a president who does not want to take accountability." my emphasis
 
Oso said:
I think you've all missed the reason for concern. It's not that the Bush team was involved, to whatever degree in staging this photo op, it's that when it became problematic Bush immediately tried to push it onto someone else.
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You meant to say all of you except renata who brought this issue to everyone's attention, surely :)

If he had just said something like, "Well the mission for those fine troops that were about to return to port was accomplished, and we're all very proud of what they've accomplished." it would have been fine. But no he immediately tried to deny any responsibility.

General Wesley Clark called it correctly, "I think it is outrageous. He blamed the sailors for that and it is something -- an event -- that his advance team staged. I guess that next thing we are going to hear is that the sailors told him to wear the flight suit and prance around on the aircraft carrier. This is a president who does not want to take accountability." my emphasis
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I think if it can be argued that Bush is kept informed of these details, then you are correct. Indeed it might be combined with other instances when the White House attempted to shift responsibility- the State of the Union speech (how did that get in there??) the "overzealous advance volunteer" in Made in China box flap, the many other instances where decisions and mistakes and problems where the fault of someone else. However, realistically, I do not expect Bush to know details of day to day things. Scarily, I sometimes get the impression he is just not a curious person altogether (witness the filtered news complaint), and there are many more vital things he does not know. So, he just may not have known about this. Now, you may ask whether his first reaction should have been what it was, and that is a legitimate question. However, we also know he is not a great public speaker, and given the few press conferences he does give, relatively out of practice.
 
I and every other hard working tax-paying American paid for Hillary's trips.

Jester and Viper flew A-4 Skyhawks in Top Gun, same type of airplane McCain was shot down in.
 
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