Michael Brown shooting II

[Distracted1]

Thread continued from here.

Posted By: LashL

Would make far more sense to me than bullrushing a cop from so far away , while the cop has *already* fired at him and hit him.

Perhaps he started forward in a more or less upright position, then leaned in as he got closer, preparing to tackle.

*Once again, conceded in advance that this is conjecture in response to conjecture.*

Look at videos of American football players coming in to tackle other players, the mechanics of their motion looks pretty similar to what an imagined position might be for Mr. Brown based on impact wounds, further, it has been indicated that the final shots came from something like 5 feet away.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

<snip>
Fact is, they could simply have released from the start a statement from wilson telling "he attacked me punched me and refused to surrender I had to act as he seemed to be a violent criminal on its way to make more crime" or something similar would have been better than what seems to be character assassination by releasing a video that the office could not have seen as if it justified the killing.
<snip>

The fact is they did release almost that statement on August 10th.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/crim...olice-news-conference-michael-brown/13860601/
Belmar said the incident started when Brown physically assaulted the police officer, pushing him into the officer's vehicle. He said there was a struggle inside the car, and at some point Brown reached for the officer's weapon. One shot was fired inside the vehicle.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I think you don't know how an FOIA request works. Anything someone was trying to pry loose with that would take months (if not years) to get released.

The fact that the video was released under a FOIA request within a few days is evidence your statement is completely untrue.

There are legitimate reasons for not releasing information. There wasn't any valid reason to release the video of the incident at the store when it was released. Only as an attempt to influence the narrative of the shooting in advance of the investigation.

But are there legal reasons ?

There was absolutely no legal reason that they had to do so at that time. Even in Florida, with the most Draconian Sunshine Laws in the country, the police can withhold anything that is part of an ongoing investigation, which the store incident certainly was.

Please quote the relevant laws, and evidence that the store robbery was part of the ongoing investigation.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Released over the objections of federal investigators then. The marijuana was result was leaked.

Some people here are objecting to a lot of red herrings in this thread. The gist of the released video along with the pot information looked very suspiciously like character assassination of Brown regardless if it was "leaked" or released.

People can think it was just business as usual, but given they were asked not to release it by the feds suggests it was not necessary to have done so.

http://www.businessinsider.com/feds...-of-alleged-michael-brown-robbery-tape-2014-8

Ferguson cops had wanted to release the video on Thursday but held off when federal officials asked them not to release the tape, an unnamed law enforcement official told CNN
I'm getting confused ...

In this case, we trust an unnamed law enforcement official, and the fact that he leaked information is ok.

But when it comes to injuries, we don't trust unnamed sources, and leaking autopsy information is bad.

There seems to be quite a bias on when leaking is good or bad, and when we trust anonymous sources....

 

[Mike!]

Brown collapsing face first onto the street would leave abrasions on his face. A charging 300 pound guy collapsing face first into the pavement is going to do a lot of damage to his face.
There should also be other indications of his forward momentum. Damage or tears in clothing, abrasions on any exposed skin that hit the pavement. Blood smears and streaks from the body sliding.

I think that's what I said they said, maybe not as graphically though. The clothing details aren't available yet, they haven't been released/made available to anyone. Not even Dr. Baden has seen them yet, and says so. We'd have gunshot residue, or lack of, information if they had.

 

[casebro]

I suspect there is a law requiring them to release it on an FOI. And if they wanted to, they could fight it in the courts. And lose later. But they decided to go ahead and release soon, just like the law says. They followed the law, and it made the deceased look bad. They won that one.

 

[casebro]

Didn't Baden say there were abrasions- to the face?

My way of thinking is that the face would be abraded whether he was charging or just falling.

But to abrade the knees, he would have to have been charging.

So, were and where?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

While others may view it differently, I see the release of the surveillance video as a counter to the claim that Brown was a ' gentle giant '...
Any verbal claim without the video would have been waved away out of hand...

 

[Unabogie]

Didn't Baden say there were abrasions- to the face?

My way of thinking is that the face would be abraded whether he was charging or just falling.

But to abrade the knees, he would have to have been charging.

So, were and where?

He was wearing shorts. So your contention is that a 292 pound person wearing shorts could only scrape his knees if he fell while running at full speed? I hope you're just waking up.

 

[Unabogie]

While others may view it differently, I see the release of the surveillance video as a counter to the claim that Brown was a ' gentle giant '...
Any verbal claim without the video would have been waved away out of hand...

Of course that's why they did it. But then this shows they weren't complying with a FOIA request and were instead "trying the case in the media". The complaint is that they did this on the same day they felt compelled to finally released the identity of Darren Wilson, after giving him a week to move away and scrub his Facebook page of anything that would make him look bad. They also did not release the incident report or any medical records that could make Wilson look bad. In other words, this release was intended to sway public opinion in a one sided way, and considering the very public anger that surrounds the case, only succeeded in making people angrier.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The longer the thread goes, the more distinct the racism gets.

@Mike, it's very selective to dismiss a professor that teaches forensic science and who assisted in an autopsy when he demonstrated a more clear picture of the bullet trajectory in favor of the less precise statements by Baden, which by the way did not say anything like your diagrams show.

Care to post Baden's quotes that you based those diagrams on?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

If Baden couldn't determine a precise trajectory, what information did Parcells have that was unavailable to Baden?

It is not lost on anyone how Baden was your go-to expert except when it doesn't fall your way..

 

[Unabogie]

If Baden couldn't determine a precise trajectory, what information did Parcells have that was unavailable to Baden?

It is not lost on anyone how Baden was your go-to expert except when it doesn't fall your way..

It's lost on me. Perhaps you could explain your objection using more descriptive language relating to the science and not the poster?

 

[Monketi Ghost]

While others may view it differently, I see the release of the surveillance video as a counter to the claim that Brown was a ' gentle giant '...
Any verbal claim without the video would have been waved away out of hand...

Agreed.

And it demolished the notion of a gentle guy.

 

[casebro]

He was wearing shorts. So your contention is that a 292 pound person wearing shorts could only scrape his knees if he fell while running at full speed? I hope you're just waking up.

I'm an expert in my field. I'm currently down to 272, from a high of 325. How much do you weigh? And I'm clumsy due to unrelated medical issues.

A body falling vertically down gets dents. A slip and fall when moving forward gets linear scrapes. Knees or nose.

 

[Kestrel]

Two well known experts perform an autopsy and discuss the results in a press conference. The results do not conform to what certain people believe, so those people then launch a personal attack against the experts.

I am not impressed.

 

[Unabogie]

I'm an expert in my field. I'm currently down to 272, from a high of 325. How much do you weigh? And I'm clumsy due to unrelated medical issues.

A body falling vertically down gets dents. A slip and fall when moving forward gets linear scrapes. Knees or nose.

I hope you'll forgive me for ignoring something so silly, but I'm still getting the hang of this True Skeptic thing.

1) You've never seen the scrapes.
2) A body gets "dents"?
3) You're an "expert" on medical forensics because you're overweight?

 

[casebro]

Of course that's why they did it. But then this shows they weren't complying with a FOIA request and were instead "trying the case in the media". The complaint is that they did this on the same day they felt compelled to finally released the identity of Darren Wilson, after giving him a week to move away and scrub his Facebook page of anything that would make him look bad. They also did not release the incident report or any medical records that could make Wilson look bad. In other words, this release was intended to sway public opinion in a one sided way, and considering the very public anger that surrounds the case, only succeeded in making people angrier.

go read post 6, up this page.

By following the law, without fighting it in court, they WERE complying with a FOIA request.

And also demolishing the myth of a gentle giant in the media.

 

[casebro]

I hope you'll forgive me for ignoring something so silly, but I'm still getting the hang of this True Skeptic thing.


2) A body gets "dents"?

Come over here and I'll prove it to you.

 

[Unabogie]

go read post 6, up this page.

By following the law, without fighting it in court, they WERE complying with a FOIA request.

And also demolishing the myth of a gentle giant in the media.

And so the other items I listed, which are also part of a FOIA request, were held back because...?

The second part of your post is undeniable, which is exactly why police released that info at the same time as they finally released the identity of the shooter.