Mexico's Outrage . . .

[xjx388]

I have observed that many people who oppose Trump's policies regarding the wall and the import tax (a matter which hits home for me) keep referring to the idea that Trump's actions will result in pissing off Mexico and the Mexican Nationals who come do all their shopping here. This will result in them not coming and spending their money here anymore and to initiate a trade war with us. These are usually people I know who are on the left side of the political spectrum.

What I don't understand is why these left-leaning people want to appease Mexico? Forget all the rhetoric about security and "America First." The truth is that Mexico is one of the most extreme examples of income inequality in the Americas. Those Mexican Nationals that come to buy the things they can't find in Mexico can only do so by exploiting the majority of Mexicans who live in poverty. The whole reason we have a problem with illegal immigration in the first place is that the people of Mexico are oppressed and exploited. Shouldn't we want the rich Mexicans to stay home and spread their wealth in their own country, even if it means we lose out on some of their spending?

I say if the Mexicans get angry and don't want to come here to spend as much money any more, that's a good thing for Mexico and by extension, the US. They will stay home and develop the infrastructure and economy to create/import the goods they want at home which will create jobs for the oppressed poor people of Mexico. In turn, those people won't need to flee across the border to us. Forcing Mexico to take care of Mexico could be the best thing to happen for all of us.

 

[dudalb]

You really don't understand economics very well, do you?

 

[marplots]

It's because we all smoke weed and eat at Taco Bell.

Thank you, Mexico.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

The truth is that Mexico is one of the most extreme examples of income inequality in the Americas.

It's not particularly.

Depends on what measure you use of course but it's not worse than most of South America.

By the measures I can see online it's closer to the US than the US is to Canada.

Still if there is one thing I have learned about any post defending Trump or his policies the words 'truth' 'fact' 'reality' are definitely red flags that what follows is worth checking out for yourself.

 

[newyorkguy]

The comments I have seen is that Trump is adopting a confrontational style that doesn't work too well in international politics. All previous presidents -- including both of the Bush's and Ronald Reagan -- used a cooperative style. That Trump is needlessly backing Mexico's leaders into a corner. Mexico has some historic grievances with the U.S. and they're legitimate. Mexican citizens want their leaders to stand up to Trump, not let him push Mexico around or be put in the position where it looks like Mexico is being pushed around.

What some of the centrist Mexican leaders are saying is, they want to continue to have a cooperative relationship with the U.S. but they fear that Trump is creating a political backlash in Mexico which will help the more extreme elements in Mexican politics. That it's in America's long-term best interests to use more discretion and stop the confrontational language.

 

[eeyore1954]

It's because we all smoke weed and eat at Taco Bell.

Thank you, Mexico.

Is this an example of cause and effect?

 

[xjx388]

It's not particularly.

Depends on what measure you use of course but it's not worse than most of South America.

By the measures I can see online it's closer to the US than the US is to Canada.

Still if there is one thing I have learned about any post defending Trump or his policies the words 'truth' 'fact' 'reality' are definitely red flags that what follows is worth checking out for yourself.

1% of the population owns 43% of the wealth. 46% of the country lives in poverty. That's "not particularly" extreme? And your claim of it being closer to the US than the US is to Canada? C'mon man...

 

[marplots]

Is this an example of cause and effect?

It's an example of beautiful symmetry, of perfect balance and, I suppose, cultural misappropriation.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I have observed that many people who oppose Trump's policies regarding the wall and the import tax (a matter which hits home for me) keep referring to the idea that Trump's actions will result in pissing off Mexico and the Mexican Nationals who come do all their shopping here.

Do you really think our third largest trading partner consists of Mexicans shopping at the border?

What I don't understand is why these left-leaning people want to appease Mexico?

You need to look up the definition of a straw man argument.

Forget all the rhetoric about security and "America First." The truth is that Mexico is one of the most extreme examples of income inequality in the Americas. Those Mexican Nationals that come to buy the things they can't find in Mexico can only do so by exploiting the majority of Mexicans who live in poverty.

So now it's only the rich Mexicans who buy goods in the border cities which account for our third largest trade partner.

The whole reason we have a problem with illegal immigration in the first place is that the people of Mexico are oppressed and exploited. Shouldn't we want the rich Mexicans to stay home and spread their wealth in their own country, even if it means we lose out on some of their spending?

Doesn't it get boring in that black and white world you live in? Accodring to this data the gap between the rich and poor isn't all that different between Mexico and the US.

4. United States
> Gini index – post tax & transfer: 0.389
> Social spending, pct. of GDP: 19.2% (10th lowest)
> Chg. in Gini after tax & transfer: 0.118 (6th smallest)
> Poverty rate: 17.4% (5th highest)

The United States once again ranks as one of the least equal developed nation in the world. It is also very unusual as a less equal nation. The United States is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a GDP per capita of close to $55,000, fourth highest in the OECD. In fact, of the 16 nations with the highest per capita income in the OECD, the United States is the only one among the worst nations for income inequality. The United states had the fourth largest proportion of adults with a college degree. Having more college graduates might have helped reduce inequality in the country.

2. Mexico
> Gini index – post tax & transfer: 0.482
> Social spending, pct. of GDP: N/A
> Chg. in Gini after tax & transfer: N/A
> Poverty rate: 21.4% (the highest)

Mexico: Less wealth per capita does not guarantee higher income inequality, but most of the OECD nations with the worst income inequality had less robust economies. This includes Mexico, which had a GDP per capita of just $17,880, the lowest among the nations considered and less than a third of the U.S. figure. Lower unemployment might be expected to maintain more equal salaries, but that does not appear to have made a big difference in Mexico. The country had an extremely low unemployment rate of just 4.8%, fourth lowest in the OECD. Given the high rate of income inequality in the country, it is not surprising that Mexico had the highest poverty rate of any OECD country at 21.4% of its population.

I say if the Mexicans get angry and don't want to come here to spend as much money any more, that's a good thing for Mexico and by extension, the US. They will stay home and develop the infrastructure and economy to create/import the goods they want at home which will create jobs for the oppressed poor people of Mexico. In turn, those people won't need to flee across the border to us. Forcing Mexico to take care of Mexico could be the best thing to happen for all of us.

So those 11 million undocumented immigrants living here are going to be offended so much they'll go home?


Trump is a walking diplomatic disaster and we've only begun to see the damage. He's incompetent and that's not going to change.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

1% of the population owns 43% of the wealth. 46% of the country lives in poverty. That's "not particularly" extreme? And your claim of it being closer to the US than the US is to Canada? C'mon man...

Cite your data.

 

[casebro]

...Mexico has some historic grievances with the U.S. and they're legitimate. ....

I would have thought they would have gotten over the Gadsden Purchase by now. What else you got?

 

[Garrison]

Mexico is angry because Trump is blaming them for the fact that US employers are creating a market for illegal immigrants, that he calls them 'drug dealers' when its the endless appetite of the US for narcotics(and their refusal to adopt a rational drug policy) that's made the narco gangs a law unto themselves, oh and of course the US is the source of the weapons that arm those gangs.

It is that, like yourself, Trump is blaming Mexico for US problems.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

The truth is that Mexico is one of the most extreme examples of income inequality in the Americas.

The income inequality in Mexico isn't very different to the income inequality in the US

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

1% of the population owns 43% of the wealth.

In the US the top 0.1% of the population have as much wealth as the bottom 90%.

And your claim of it being closer to the US than the US is to Canada? C'mon man...

As per the link in the previous post (which is from the CIA, so unlikely to be either Liberal or anti-USA), the GINI index of each country is: Mexico 48.3%, USA 45.0%, Canada 32.1%.

 

[dudalb]

I would have thought they would have gotten over the Gadsden Purchase by now. What else you got?

A long history of the US trying to meddle in Mexican Internal affairs and a tendacy to treat Mexico with comtempt,and the whole issue of economic imperialism.
That is why the arrogance of Trump's "If are not going to pay for the wall, don't bother to come" caused such a firestorm.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

1% of the population owns 43% of the wealth. 46% of the country lives in poverty. That's "not particularly" extreme? And your claim of it being closer to the US than the US is to Canada? C'mon man...

Well I'm only going by the data on standard ways to measure income inequality maybe you have a better method? Want to share it?

 

[Crossbow]

So I guess the goal of the plan proposed by 'xjx388' will actually make "Mexico Great Again!".

By the way, just think how how the wall that will be paid for by Mexico will really, really, really help to make "Mexico Great Again!".

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

So I guess the goal of the plan proposed by 'xjx388' will actually make "Mexico Great Again!".

By the way, just think how how the wall that will be paid for by Mexico will really, really, really help to make "Mexico Great Again!".

Well, China's got a wall, and that's one of the leading economies in the world. QED.

 

[xjx388]

Do you really think our third largest trading partner consists of Mexicans shopping at the border?

No . . . I pretty clearly was addressing the concerns of people I have observed, not the entirety of the US-Mexico relationship.

You need to look up the definition of a straw man argument.

So people who I have spoken with who say we need to not piss off Mexico so that they don't stop coming over here is a strawman?

So now it's only the rich Mexicans who buy goods in the border cities which account for our third largest trade partner.

No, the rich Mexicans who shop on the border are the concerns of the people I've observed and spoken with about this issue.

Doesn't it get boring in that black and white world you live in? Accodring to this data the gap between the rich and poor isn't all that different between Mexico and the US.

I'm not sure where your source got its figures. The Mexican Government reported a poverty rate of 46.2% for 2014. The US poverty rate is around 14%. That seems pretty different to me and significantly different from your source.

So those 11 million undocumented immigrants living here are going to be offended so much they'll go home?

No, they might find conditions in their home country improved enough to go back. More importantly, less people will feel the need to flee oppression if they aren't, you know, as oppressed anymore.

Trump is a walking diplomatic disaster and we've only begun to see the damage. He's incompetent and that's not going to change.

Maybe. Maybe not. We'll see. But in the meantime, I still don't understand why so many are wary of pissing off Mexico. Maybe they need something to spark them into improving conditions in Mexico.

 

[Dani]

Nationals who do their shopping? What about import and export?

Trump is a walking diplomatic disaster and we've only begun to see the damage. He's incompetent and that's not going to change.

This. The way I see it (but I'm not exposed to American media the way an American does) is that he's really obsessed with delivering on his promises.

The scary thing is that his Isolationism doesn't seem to only apply to America, but also to the way he does politics. This issue in particular represents a revolution against the neocon doctrine, which has always been represented by... what?... the Republican Party. "His" party.

I don't know what's going on, but I sense the smell of impeachment. I've never seen the Republican Party so divided, and there are definitely reasons why it is so.