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Mexican Flag flies over US Flag

JOKER

Thinker
JOKER
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
162
Saw this this morning. If I remember my US Flag flying rules, it is illegal for any flag to fly higher than the US Flag inside the United States except for certain Navy services. Anyways, an upset veteran cut down both flags and took the American flag with him.

Of course CNN is quoting a Betsy Ross section of a website for their info. :p

CNN Video
 
The http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html site has the rules and regulations concerning flag displays. Emphasis mine:

§5. Display and use of flag by civilians; codification of rules and customs; definition

The following codification of existing rules and customs pertaining to the display and use of the flag of the United States of America be, and it is hereby, established for the use of such civilians or civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments of the Government of the United States. The flag of the United States for the purpose of this chapter shall be defined according to title 4, United States Code, Chapter 1, Section 1 and Section 2 and Executive Order 10834 issued pursuant thereto.
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So the store owner broke no laws, but the veteran broke the law by taking down the flags by vandalized the property (flagpole) and then stole another piece of property (US flag). I'm sure the store owner could have him arrested, but it's probably not worth the hassle.
 
It never ceases to amaze me how some people treat the symbol as so much more important than what it stands for.
 
You should never, ever fly two flags from one flagpole. If you want to fly two flags, buy two flagpoles.

If you fly two flags from one pole, you are suggesting that the lower flag represents an entity which is under military occupation by the higher one.
 
Madalch said:
You should never, ever fly two flags from one flagpole. If you want to fly two flags, buy two flagpoles.

If you fly two flags from one pole, you are suggesting that the lower flag represents an entity which is under military occupation by the higher one.
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I thought that by doing so you implied that there is no such thing as a central authority of flag flying and that it's just a rag in any case.
 
I found this on the United States Code site.

(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations.

(g) When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.
 
TheDoLittle said:
The http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html site has the rules and regulations concerning flag displays. Emphasis mine:

So the store owner broke no laws, but the veteran broke the law by taking down the flags by vandalized the property (flagpole) and then stole another piece of property (US flag). I'm sure the store owner could have him arrested, but it's probably not worth the hassle.
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OK, so I was watching this on CNN this morning. Former FoxBot, Kiran Chetry (who btw is way less annoying than her chirpy predecessor, Soledad O'Brian, and her on-air partner, John Roberts) quoted that whole Betsy Ross thing, and then said something to the effect, "So, it looks like that guy was right afterall." Nary a nod to the notion that these rules for flag display do not have the force of law, and that the angry nut is a thief and a vandal.

The Code is designed "for the use of such civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments” of the federal government.3 Thus, the Flag Code does not prescribe any penalties for non-compliance nor does it include enforcement provisions; rather the Code functions simply as a guide to be voluntarily followed by civilians and civilian groups.
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http://lieberman.senate.gov/documents/crs/usflag.pdf
 
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Madalch said:
You should never, ever fly two flags from one flagpole. If you want to fly two flags, buy two flagpoles.

If you fly two flags from one pole, you are suggesting that the lower flag represents an entity which is under military occupation by the higher one.
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What if one is the US flag and the other is the flag of a US state. I'm not sure it qualifies as "military occupied by" but the federal government does supersede and therefore have power over state governments.
 
tsg said:
It never ceases to amaze me how some people treat the symbol as so much more important than what it stands for.
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I agree and it pains me that Vietnam Vets are among those who rabidly guard the "sanctity" of the flag! On any given day it's fairly easy to find at least three or four flags flown "improperly, but you don't see veterans cutting them down. I suspect this particular Vet is caught up in the Xenophobia that those who love dining on red herring are espousing.
 
Madalch said:
You should never, ever fly two flags from one flagpole. If you want to fly two flags, buy two flagpoles.

If you fly two flags from one pole, you are suggesting that the lower flag represents an entity which is under military occupation by the higher one.
Click to expand...

Its ok to fly a state or company flag below the American flag.
 
This reminds me of something that happened to me when I was a teenager working at a fast food restaurant. The manager sent me out to clean the shed. I found a box with a very old, very dirty American flag that had obviously touched the ground on more than one occasion. I took it to the manager and said, "We need to burn this flag." He went red in the face and started screaming at me, "We'll have no flag burning around here you damn communist!!"
 
DRBUZZ0 said:
What if one is the US flag and the other is the flag of a US state. I'm not sure it qualifies as "military occupied by" but the federal government does supersede and therefore have power over state governments.
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It's done constantly, but that doesn't make it correct.
 
Blah.

Flags are powerful symbols. I happen to be rather fond of this country, (while quite aware of her flaws and sins), and it would bother me to have another nation's flag on the same pole being flown above the flag of the United States of America.

Further, especially with veterans, that flag might just represent more than you can imagine. When you've dedicated enough years of your life, in the cold/hot/being shot at/away from home/being spit on by hippies this country, and its symbols might become more significant.

Besides, looking beyond the rag vs rag argument, the place of Mexican immigrants in the US is a tenuous topic these days. I was confused and less inclined to look upon the plight of illegals in the US after they marched not as Americans demanding their rights, but as Mexicans, in America, demanding rights. The flag arrangement might be seen, by some, as an extension of that identity.

So short answer: I wouldn't have torn down the flag. Then again I wouldn't have called the police on the guy that did it.
 
A scary zzTop wannabe waving around a really big hunting knife while on a rant seems to be a bit more of a threat than either of those flags.

But that's just me.
 
lordofwaffles said:
Further, especially with veterans, that flag might just represent more than you can imagine. When you've dedicated enough years of your life, in the cold/hot/being shot at/away from home/being spit on by hippies this country, and its symbols might become more significant.
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I'm a disabled Viet-Vet and I honor the flag for the best things it represents, most of which are intangible and can be found in most people regardless of what country they come from. I agree with you that the guy's actions were a little dramatic (when informing the business owner of proper flat etiquette probably would have sufficed).



Alt+F4 said:
A scary zzTop wannabe waving around a really big hunting knife while on a rant seems to be a bit more of a threat than either of those flags.

But that's just me.
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Nope, it's me too! Seeing this loon cutting ANYTHING in public with his K-bar would have left me far more nervous than two pieces of cloth flying on a pole in "the wrong order!"

Frankly, I'm surprised Lou Dobb's head didn't explode!
 
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If you think flags are not powerful symbols in the US spend some time in the South and try to take the confederate flag from one of the locals.
 
thatguywhojuggles said:
This reminds me of something that happened to me when I was a teenager working at a fast food restaurant. The manager sent me out to clean the shed. I found a box with a very old, very dirty American flag that had obviously touched the ground on more than one occasion. I took it to the manager and said, "We need to burn this flag." He went red in the face and started screaming at me, "We'll have no flag burning around here you damn communist!!"
Click to expand...
Funny. Same with me. I was walking downtown and found a ceremonial flag, with a gold colored braid border, in a gutter. It had a blue paint stain on it, so I wanted to see if it cleaned up good and folded it like I learned in the BSA. I happened to catch a thirst so I walked into the Dew Drop Inn, where Big Tiny, ex cop, ever a Marine, yells, "What are you doing with our flag?"
"See if it cleans up, if it doesn't, burn it."
I got a similar response as you, but it included "hippie peacenik".
 
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