Metaphysics?

[Upchurch]

Rather than hijacking another thread (again), I thought start a new thread to ask a question about one of Ian's posts.

This idea of mass being how much stuff there is was just a metaphysical picture of what mass meant. Mass is just a term in our mathematical equations describing reality.

This first sentince cought my attention so I looked up the definition of metaphysical, because I thought Ian's usage here was odd.

Main Entry: meta·phys·i·cal
Pronunciation: -'fi-zi-k&l
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
1 : of or relating to metaphysics
2 a : of or relating to the transcendent or to a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses b : SUPERNATURAL
3 : highly abstract or abstruse; also : THEORETICAL
4 often capitalized : of or relating to poetry especially of the early 17th century that is highly intellectual and philosophical and marked by unconventional imagery
- meta·phys·i·cal·ly /-k(&-)lE/ adverb

Fairly certain, he wasn't using the fourth definition. I have a hard time believing he meant the second or third ones either (but correct me if I'm wrong, Ian). That leaves the first, which requires looking upmetaphysics.

Main Entry: meta·phys·ic
Pronunciation: "me-t&-'fi-zik
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English metaphesyk, from Medieval Latin metaphysica
Date: 14th century
1 a : METAPHYSICS b : a particular system of metaphysics
2 : the system of principles underlying a particular study or subject : PHILOSOPHY 3b
- metaphysic adjective

The first definition is circular and unuseful. The second doesn't really seem to apply since we're not really talking about the principles underlying physics, but a topic of physics.

So, what the heck does "metaphycial" mean in this case? And if mass is a part of the "metaphysical picture", what would classify as the "physical picture"?

 

[Nyarlathotep]

It's deja vu all over again!

 

[Upchurch]

Yeah, that's my bad. My system is acting all wonky and has been doing this.

I posted to a thread a little while ago and it came up three times. There, I could just delete two of them, but I can't delete a whole thread. I've PM'ed a moderator and asked to remove the other one.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I figured it was something like that, however I can never pass up an opportnity to quote Yogi Berra.

 

[ceptimus]

The first definition is circular and unuseful.

unuseful? antiuseful? inuseful? contrauseful?

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

You left out disuseful.

 

[Upchurch]

lacking in usefullness, yes.

It's my thread and I'll make up words if I want to.
words if I want to.
words if I want to.
You'd make up words too if it happened to you...

 

[Leif Roar]

The first definition is circular and unuseful.

Actually, the first definition isn't quite circular - it points to a separate entry for "metaphysics", which states:

Main Entry: meta·phys·ics
Pronunciation: -'fi-ziks
Function: noun plural but singular in construction
Etymology: Medieval Latin Metaphysica, title of Aristotle's treatise on the subject, from Greek (ta) meta (ta) physika, literally, the (works) after the physical (works); from its position in his collected works
Date: 1569
1 a (1) : a division of philosophy that is concerned with the fundamental nature of reality and being and that includes ontology, cosmology, and often epistemology (2) : ONTOLOGY 2 b : abstract philosophical studies : a study of what is outside objective experience
2 : METAPHYSIC 2

 

[c4ts]

Metaphysics - A book by Aristotle which all of you should read, defined by him as being the study of the way things work (compared to Physics, the study of things themselves)

 

[slimshady2357]

Fairly certain, he wasn't using the fourth definition. I have a hard time believing he meant the second or third ones either (but correct me if I'm wrong, Ian).

Actually I believe he is using the second definition, or a variation that is close.

It was:

2 a : of or relating to the transcendent or to a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses b : SUPERNATURAL

I believe what Ian meant is that the concept of mass as 'stuff' usually means 'stuff that is "out there"'. And so is commonly used as part of a material metaphysic, in that people mean 'stuff' to be 'matter'.

So, what the heck does "metaphycial" mean in this case? And if mass is a part of the "metaphysical picture", what would classify as the "physical picture"? [/B]

Metaphysical means, in this case, the Materialist metaphysic (probably more specifically the Classical Materialist metaphysic).

The physical of course is a little more difficult due to the confusion with the word. If all you mean by physical is 'that which can be observed in some manner' and you don't ascribe a metaphysic (in this case a specific ontology like Idealism or Materialism), then the physical case of 'mass' is merely the variable we call 'mass' that arises in our physical laws.

For Ian, it is just one variable amongst many that is part of describing the world of qualia, the only world we know.

Does that clear everything up?

Adam

 

[Upchurch]

Re: Re: Metaphysics?

Does that clear everything up?

Actually, it did, I think.

The physical of course is a little more difficult due to the confusion with the word. If all you mean by physical is 'that which can be observed in some manner' and you don't ascribe a metaphysic (in this case a specific ontology like Idealism or Materialism), then the physical case of 'mass' is merely the variable we call 'mass' that arises in our physical laws.

This is, indeed, where I was confused. To me, "mass" would be part of the physical world and the metaphysical would be something else that focuses on the philosophy underlying the physical, whatever that is.

So, I disagree with Ian on one more thing. He seems to have a narrow world view where he sees everything only in terms of philosophy. *shrug* His loss.