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Mass for the Dead

jimmygun

Graduate Poster
J
Joined
Apr 4, 2003
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Over the past few weeks my wife and mother-in-law have gone to church to say a pre-arranged mass for the mother of another couple. The mass is applied for, announced, and time is set aside at the church for people to attend.

It got me to thinking about when I am dead. I am an atheist, have been all my life and live that life according to my beliefs. I like to think that I am not hypocritical, that people can say I was sincere.

I spoke with my wife last night and told her that I do not want a mass said for me by anyone. She wanted to know why and I explained that I felt it would be rude and disrespectful to anyone who did not believe in the hereafter, to be publicly prayed over. It would be the same as if I went to some believer's church, stood up and announced that the departed was not going to heaven, was not going to see Jesus, but was going to rot in the ground.

I have to trust that my wife will not say a mass after I am dead, that she will make my wishes known to those that might want to have one said.

Your thoughts?
 
Sounds kind of selfish to me.. You are putting pressure on a loved one to act in a way, contrary to what they believe to be important... It would be better to lead them to a point where they do not have to go against their belief in order to honor your request..

You can express your belief ( or lack thereof ) by not participating while you are alive... people will tend to repect this and question their own beliefs..

Burial rituals are not for the dead, they are for the living...
 
It seems to me that the only thing I am going to leave behind is my reputation. I do not get a second chance at life so I do the best I can to make this life matter. To dismiss that whole life by pretending that it is irrelevant and to publicly announce that I am in limbo in need of prayers to get me into heaven is a slap in the face of the way I lived.

I do not tell people to not pray for me privately for that is their perogative, (though I would prefer them not to waste their time). But to make a public display out of it is to me disrespectful of my life and what it meant.

I am (or will be) an organ donor. It is my wish that usable parts be harvested and the rest be cremated. I specifically do not wish my body to go to science for reasons which are my own. If this wish can be honoured then the wish that a mass not be said for me should be honoured too.
 
Well, what if she asked you to say a prayer for her at her funeral? Would you do it simply out of a desire to follow her wishes? It seems even if she refrains from mass, she might still go about thinking of you being in the afterlife. Your sort of asking her not to respect your memory.

Of course, it's your funeral, and you only ever get one. You have a right to have it run the way you want. ;)
 
Are you talking about an actual funeral Mass or simply a Mass said in memory of someone (which can happen at any time after the funeral)?

I can understand about having your wishes respected concerning the disposition of your mortal remains. Trying to prevent people from simply having a Mass said in memoriam, however, seems like overreaching. If you could really ensure such a thing, it would be more an infringement on other people's religious beliefs than on your own. It's more like trying to prevent people from praying for you than it is like trying to prevent your cadaver from being appropriated by a scientific institution.
 
As explained by my wife, the mass takes place sometime after the funeral. It is an appeal to god to shorten the stay of the departed's soul in limbo and hasten his/her arrival in heaven. It is a public display of religion and that is what I would object to. Private prayer is the ownership of the individual, that is not what I am trying to curtail.

I write music for what it is worth. It would be wrong for those left behind to suggest that that music was inspired by god in a public way. It would in no way represent who I was, it would be a lie. It would be theft of my identity.

My wife and friends have enough respect for me not to ask me to participate in a religious ceremony. I will attend services as an observer but will not join in. I could not in any concience say a prayer for anyone for any reason. I am not asking my wife to not pray, just to refrain from having a public mass in my name. It is a simple request and it takes away nothing of her religious beliefs.

All that I am is mortal remains, my body, my thoughts, my beliefs, my creations of music and humour. These things are mine and should not be trifled with.
 
I'm with Jimmygun on this one. I need to make a similar request of my wife.
 
jimmygun said:



All that I am is mortal remains, my body, my thoughts, my beliefs, my creations of music and humour. These things are mine and should not be trifled with.
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As Akots asked; If your wife dies before you, are you going to make sure her wishes are followed?
 
This was the genesis of the straight to hell club, one of my friends thought that his mother (bless her) was going to have a southern babtist service when he dies. A friend of his agreed that if the preacher ever said 'he came to jesus', 'he was a good christian', or 'he is with the Lord now', then this coal miner friend would shout out "NO HE'S NOT!"

Thus the origin of the Straight to Hell Club, bubmer sticker read 'Don't pray for me cause I'm going STRAIGHT TO HELL', also entitles you to use the express elevator to Hell and two free drinks at the bar.
 
Jimmygun, in my opinion, is right. How is it different from what the Mormons were doing when they baptized dead Jews? What if I walked into a Catholic funeral and announced that the deceased was with Allah, or had been reincarnated, or was burning in the flames of hell?
 
Again...my wife would not make a request of me that she knew I would not do. I would tell her up front that it was an impossibility for me to pray for anyone for any reason.

I brought my concerns about a mass to my wife and she agrees that it should not happen. She also agrees to make my request known to those that might want to have such a mass said. As I said before...I must and do trust my wife to carry out this request.
 
jimmygun said:
Again...my wife would not make a request of me that she knew I would not do.
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If your wife feels mass is important for other people, why does she feel, it is not for you?


Does she believe you will go to purgatory? If not, why other people and not you?
 
I don't know about limbo, but I know that Catholics feel pretty strongly about Purgatory--using my own extensive background and my Mother as a source. I know when my Mother passes on that somebody in the family--probably me, I doubt my brothers will have the patience for such a thing--should probably arrange to have Masses said in her honor, for the express purpose of helping shorten her stay in Purgatory (which is like Hell, except you get out eventually). I don't believe in these sorts of things and I doubt I'll have anything like a Mass said for me when I'm gone (or even have anyone show up at the funeral! :D )

In the bad old days, and maybe still, there was a tradition of paying the priest to say these Masses (as they had to be said outside of the actual Sunday Mass time, on the priest's own time, and usually there had to be a number of them). It was really just a gratuity, although I remember when my grandmother died seemed it put some strain on my parent's finances to shell out the dough--I was pretty young then.

Still, all the folderol aside, I plan on honoring my mother's wishes. Keeping in topic, I think jimmygun's wife should honor his. If he doesn't want the Mass and all the other trappings, he shouldn't have them--though if his wife is a believer, like my mother, she might suffer some anguish thinking that he is languishing in some underworld furnace, or worse. If god exists and knows all things, he knows that jimmygun doesn't deserve such an ultimate fate :) .
 
My wife's beliefs are her own, you would have to ask her to outline them. I am only objecting to the public display of what I consider rudeness and disrespect. Her private religious thoughts are none of my business.

Do some Christians actually have the gall to baptize Jews after they die? I have never heard of such a thing! It to me would be the most unforgiving insult of all time!
 
jimmygun said:
My wife's beliefs are her own, you would have to ask her to outline them. I am only objecting to the public display of what I consider rudeness and disrespect. Her private religious thoughts are none of my business.

Do some Christians actually have the gall to baptize Jews after they die? I have never heard of such a thing! It to me would be the most unforgiving insult of all time!
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In the past (with Catholics, at any rate) after-death and point-of-death baptisms have been a problem. Nowadays they are looked on with the appropriate sort of embarrassment and are certainly discouraged. There have been cases (mostly anecdotal, to my knowledge) of Catholic doctors in Catholic hospitals baptizing babies without the parents' consent, and other such stories, mostly in the past. It's not now considered a very nice thing to do (duh!).
 
What are you going to care what happens after you are dead, jimmygun? :D

And what if your wife is right and you are wrong? There you are in purgatory kicking yourself.....
 
Luke T. said:
What are you going to care what happens after you are dead, jimmygun? :D

And what if your wife is right and you are wrong? There you are in purgatory kicking yourself.....
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That very idea has always scared me silly :eek:
 
Luke T. said:


And what if your wife is right and you are wrong? There you are in purgatory kicking yourself.....
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Aside from an overload of evangelists and ministers there are no wonder working prophets in sight.
The religious line is 'unsubstantiated faith is worth more than belief based on proof' in the 'eyes' of god.
I find it odd that people can show their pets greater attention, training and proof of their affection than this god shows to its creations.
What's odder is the believers who do not question the capriciousness of their definition of god.
 
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