Martial Arts Conundrum

cgordon said:
Soma, ignore Ken, he's got a one-track mind when it comes to MA discussions.
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Yeah - I'd noticed. Thing is, I have a fair bit to say on the matter. It just irks me that he takes any thread containing the words 'Martial Arts' and sees that as an excuse for jumping in, shouting 'Kickboxing Rulezzz!!!!111!!!!!!!eleven11!!!'

So I think I've decided to stay for now (or at least when I get back from my injury!!), mention that I'd like to steer away from the 'mystical' side, and try to have an open discussion with my teacher at some point.

Thanks all for your help, I'll let you know how I get on.
 
Soma said:
So I think I've decided to stay for now (or at least when I get back from my injury!!), mention that I'd like to steer away from the 'mystical' side, and try to have an open discussion with my teacher at some point.
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An interesting point of view about woo elements in martial arts (mostly deals with Japanese MA).

Are you in a martial arts cult?



How cultish behavior starts, of course, is usually in slow but steady steps taken from a seeming base of normality but leading to insanity. All tight, cohesive martial arts groups aren't cults. But they transform themselves into dangerous and crazy cults slowly, over time, as they build lies upon lies in order to make themselves more than what they are.
Why do they do that? There seems to be a variety of reasons. Some "masters" need the adulation and adoration that a cult fosters. So they make something up and then truly and sincerely believe their own lies.
…..
You know you're in a cult when:
……
--As soon as you ask questions about the teacher's origins and instructors (and bizzare claims), you get a "I don't have to tell you because you're an idiot" behavior. Sure, there's obnoxious snooping, but there's also reasonable and expected questioning that must arise if you visit a dojo.
…..
So are you in a cult? Chances are, you probably aren't. Most martial arts groups, by and large, are legitimate organizations, in spite of the differences in which they conduct their business and interpersonal relationships. But if you are, don't kid yourself. Sooner or later, you might be asked to join that big O'sensei that is trailing another comet. By then, it may be too late for you to get out with your life.
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I would agree that you should take this up in private with your instructor if it bothers you to the point where you can't just ignore it. Explain what your objections are, and where you're coming from with it all. Don't BS him, but be honest about the reasons why you don't believe in chi/earth spirits/whatever the hell.

If it becomes clear that he's not giving up the mystical stuff, and you don't want to "convert" to it, then perhaps you could come up with some mutual agree-to-disagree arrangement with regards to your training. It is also possible that this mysticism is as integral to the training as, say, throwing a proper punch. If that's the case, you might want to consider finding another school or style.

You will always find schools that push the mystical aspect of TMA to various degrees, but some are more about it than others. Even MMA is not free from woo, as you will see if you flip through the ads in such fine publications as "Soldier of Fortune" that advertise "one shot kills" and "unstoppable" martial arts that require "no skill" or "no training" or whatever. It may not be earth spirits, but it's just as woo-esque.
 
Soma said:
[DERAIL] This isn't going to happen for a number of reasons, not least is the fact that there isn't a muay thai school within 20 miles of me. At the moment, I walk to the class, and walk back via a number of friendly public houses. I think that this class teaches a decent amount of fighting applications and combat training. ...[/DERAIL]
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This was part of your derail, but it's what I would suggest. The Japanese guys call it "second dojo", and that's where all these types of discussions take place. I wouldn't want to speak up in the middle of class, as a lot of instructors would not like the disruption, but if you could bring it up over beers, he might be more open to a wide-open discussion of all these things.

I think you'll find a lot of instructors talk about chi and whatnot as it's a traditional part of the art, and they don't want to lose the cultural aspects that created the art, but when push comes to shove, they'll admit they don't really believe it. Of course, he might not say this in class, which is where the beer comes in.
 
Thanks again all! I think the "second dojo" (I love that name!!) is probably the right place to talk about this.

Wudang - Cheers, I'll try and find that book. I've had a quick investigoogle, and it seems like a very interesting read.

Flo - Don't worry, there's no cultish behaviour going on here! Though it's interesting, I'd never though about MA classes like that before!

Like I say, I'm broken at the moment, so it'll be about 2 weeks before I get to speak to him again. I'm intrigued as to how it'll all go!
 
Second dojo is the wonderful. When I was holding one class a week here in the household dojo, we always had a nice stock of water, beer, wine and such for after class.

We have a tradition of inviting all the students to join us at our favorite Greek restaurant after Wed. training, every week, for beers or eats or just to hang out.
 
thaiboxerken said:
I say stop training kung fu and do a martial art that's more suited to combat, like Muay Thai or BJJ.
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What makes you think he trains in martial arts to be able to fight? There are other valuable reasons to train in a martial art.

thaiboxerken said:
You should do something valuable to martial arts training. Learning magic isn't it.
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I dislike people who tells others what they should or shouldn't do with their hobbies. Mind your own business.
 
Heya Morrigan,

TBK can't leave it alone. He's a fanboy for his chosen MA path and has an unhealthy compulsion to impress his own ideas on the whole world. He's so short-sighted and tunnel-visioned, he can't even imagine that most folks find his particular MA fetish kind of icky.

He'll grow up someday, hopefully.
 
Ken, how are the dancing rituals and magic amulets in traditional muay thai "suited to combat"?

Thanks.
 
Morrigan said:
What makes you think he trains in martial arts to be able to fight? There are other valuable reasons to train in a martial art.
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If you aren't learning to fight, then you aren't learning anything martial at all.

I dislike people who tells others what they should or shouldn't do with their hobbies. Mind your own business.
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STFU. This is a public forum.
 
Training in martial arts without learn how to fight is like taking dance lessons without learning how to dance.
 
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