Man Opens Fire In Delaware

[Checkmite]

I think it's highly possible that mandatory background checks which aren't required right now may have helped prevent this tragedy.

 

[DC]

Another GST - Gun Spam Thread.

if only the crazy in the US would stop spamming bullets around.....

 

[anglolawyer]

It wasn't the gun's fault blah blah, people bad, not guns, blah, blah, go read another thread if you don't like it blah, blah. Yawn.

Can anyone identify anything about this case that makes it remotely interesting, or does anyone expect there aren't another three like it just coming round the corner? At least Amanda Knox behaves herself and hides away in a single (very long) thread. Well, it's actually four currently, but what has that to do with anything?

 

[Cleon]

You know, we could just institute a system whereby to purchase a weapon from somebody who is not a licensed dealer, you need to both go visit a dealer with the weapon for a background check. The dealer could be allowed to charge a specified fee for this service.

I have no argument with this at all. The fact that we don't absolutely perplexes me.

FFS, you have to go through more paperwork to pawn a CD collection than you do to buy a gun. Whiskey tango foxtrot?

This is absolutely true: I bought my gun in just such a manner, and I was full expecting to show ID or something. (The guy who sold it to me had a FFL.) But no - I gave him cash, he gave me a rifle. I was completely thrown by it.

 

[remirol]

This is absolutely true: I bought my gun in just such a manner, and I was full expecting to show ID or something. (The guy who sold it to me had a FFL.) But no - I gave him cash, he gave me a rifle. I was completely thrown by it.

Dude, you live in Georgia, one of the original "GOD 'N GUNS" states. Think about it for a moment.

That said, it's not accidental that in the "gun control i want" thread, #1 and #2 for me were a full firearms registry and mandatory background checks on all ownership transfers. The ability for any yahoo to get a gun at any point in time with little to no effort is part of why we have so many yahoos with guns.

Locking that **** down would have a great deal of effect not only on the "incompetent bozo shoots random person while drunk" crimes, but also on the criminal-on-criminal crimes; the guns gotta come from somewhere, and they aren't all just trading the same three 9mms back and forth.

 

[Cleon]

Dude, you live in Georgia, one of the original "GOD 'N GUNS" states. Think about it for a moment.

That said, it's not accidental that in the "gun control i want" thread, #1 and #2 for me were a full firearms registry and mandatory background checks on all ownership transfers. The ability for any yahoo to get a gun at any point in time with little to no effort is part of why we have so many yahoos with guns.

Locking that **** down would have a great deal of effect not only on the "incompetent bozo shoots random person while drunk" crimes, but also on the criminal-on-criminal crimes; the guns gotta come from somewhere, and they aren't all just trading the same three 9mms back and forth.

And it would still preserve the right of people to own firearms.

I think the vast majority of people, including gun owners, would be perfectly A-OK with that. And I agree that it would have a significant effect on gun violence.

I just with we'd take the "don't-take-our-guns-you-commies" versus "why-do-want-to-carry-a-nuke" hyperbole and shove it up Wayne LaPierre's ass. Assuming there's room in there with his head.

 

[Bikewer]

Well, once again it's the dichotomy of imposing increasing restrictions on the normal, law-abiding citizen while apparently ignoring the fact that the criminal element will simply ignore such laws if they want firearms.

We have all sorts of federal, state, and local laws against the possession of and trafficking in all sorts of drugs, yet as the GAO (Government Accounting Office) has said twice in large-scale studies..."Drugs are generally available in high states of purity and at low prices throughout the country".
Long, mandatory prison sentences for trafficking have not seemed to have much effect other than to vastly increase the prison population and to create a permanent underclass.
Why would imposing yet more regulations and restrictions on firearms have a beneficial effect on crime?

What effect did the general prohibition of alcohol have in the 20s?

 

[Cleon]

Well, once again it's the dichotomy of imposing increasing restrictions on the normal, law-abiding citizen while apparently ignoring the fact that the criminal element will simply ignore such laws if they want firearms.

It's a false dichotomy, based on a false assumption: that there is a "criminal element" versus "law-abiding citizenry." The fact of the matter is, every single person who is part of the "criminal element" was a "law-abiding citizen" at some point in their lives. The prisons are (literally) full of law-abiding citizens who, for one reason or another, stopped being law-abiding citizens.

No, regulation won't stop bad guys from getting guns if they really want them, and nobody's saying that it will. But it will make fewer firearms available to them, and make the ones that they can get more expensive and harder to get. I think that's worth the $30 we'd have to spend on an FFL transfer.

What effect did the general prohibition of alcohol have in the 20s?

Which is why nobody's talking about general prohibition, but regulation. Kinda like how we don't ban alcohol, but it's still regulated and controlled.

 

[remirol]

ETA: baleeted, waste of time

 

[P.J. Denyer]

What effect did the general prohibition of alcohol have in the 20s?

I'd imagine that the introduction of alcohol prohibition in the UK would be about as huge a success as it was in the US, certainly we have enough problems with drug smuggling to assume that there's nothing specific about us that makes us able to magic a problem away, but gun control hasn't lead to prohibition era problems over here or so far as I can tell elsewhere where controls have been introduced. Your existing weapons ownership would make any kind of ban next to impossible but I think the parallel you're drawing isn't necessarily valid.

 

[Unabogie]

I was just watching CNN, and their headline was that the NRA is ramping up their opposition to background checks. That means they literally don't think anyone should be checked out before buying a gun.

In this case, we have a known nutcase who managed to get a gun and then he murdered people inside a courthouse.

This is a concrete case in which a guy got a gun that he should never have had, and yet the NRA is out there trying to block even the most uncontroversial law regarding background checks. Last time I looked, universal background checks had something like 90% approval rating.

 

[triforcharity]

I think it's highly possible that mandatory background checks which aren't required right now may have helped prevent this tragedy.

The only way that would make sense, would be if he bought it privately.

Do we know how he got the gun?

 

[triforcharity]

I was just watching CNN, and their headline was that the NRA is ramping up their opposition to background checks. That means they literally don't think anyone should be checked out before buying a gun.

In this case, we have a known nutcase who managed to get a gun and then he murdered people inside a courthouse.

This is a concrete case in which a guy got a gun that he should never have had, and yet the NRA is out there trying to block even the most uncontroversial law regarding background checks. Last time I looked, universal background checks had something like 90% approval rating.

Yeah, we'll agree every time on the NRA is acting foolish point.

Disgusting. I really wish I did not have to be a member of the NRA. They're making me almost sick to my stomach.

 

[triforcharity]

I have no argument with this at all. The fact that we don't absolutely perplexes me.

FFS, you have to go through more paperwork to pawn a CD collection than you do to buy a gun. Whiskey tango foxtrot?

This is absolutely true: I bought my gun in just such a manner, and I was full expecting to show ID or something. (The guy who sold it to me had a FFL.) But no - I gave him cash, he gave me a rifle. I was completely thrown by it.

Were you trading one in by chance? This seems.....odd. Dirty dealer is what I think.

 

[PhantomWolf]

The only way that would make sense, would be if he bought it privately.

Do we know how he got the gun?

While no one has said as of yet, statistically the most likely senarios are that he owned then previous to his convictions, and they weren't removed because LE didn't know about them and had no way of knowing, or that he purchased them without a background check, either privately, or from an illegal trader.

Registration would solve the first issue and part of the second, compulsary BG checks would deal with the rest of the second.

 

[triforcharity]

While no one has said as of yet, statistically the most likely senarios are that he owned then previous to his convictions, and they weren't removed because LE didn't know about them and had no way of knowing, or that he purchased them without a background check, either privately, or from an illegal trader.

Registration would solve the first issue and part of the second, compulsary BG checks would deal with the rest of the second.

I agree. I think the idea of having a title system like a vehicle does, is smart. If he had a gun legally before he became a felon, then a database that could be searched by the court to determine that, would make sense.

I like the idea personally. Why not? but, the database can only be searched by serial number, and the other way to search is to get a warrant. No open access .

We're on the same page on this portion.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I agree. I think the idea of having a title system like a vehicle does, is smart. If he had a gun legally before he became a felon, then a database that could be searched by the court to determine that, would make sense.

I like the idea personally. Why not? but, the database can only be searched by serial number, and the other way to search is to get a warrant. No open access .

We're on the same page on this portion.

I actually would suggest that most of the posters here aren't that far away, except for one or two outliers who seem to want no laws, or complete bans.

I even figured out a way of solving Rand's problem with the serial numbers issues. Use microdots to give each gun its own registration number when registered (either by the owner or manufacturer), that way every gun can be tagged in a way that is not going to be visible and degrade the look, nor is it easily removable by wrong-doers, but can quickly be checked by LE.

 

[triforcharity]

I've heard of microdots before. Can you refresh my memory? What was Rand's issue WRT: serial numbers? All guns already have them, so I am a little confused. And how would this tie into our database solution?

 

[PhantomWolf]

I've heard of microdots before. Can you refresh my memory?

Or you could click the link, makes it a little easier. short story though, very small particles with information on them that can be sprayed or placed onto an item all but invisibly.

What was Rand's issue WRT: serial numbers?

He was noting that different companies have different styles of s/n, that some companies reuse the same numbers for different models, that some have no serials (old weapons for instance) and that others have multiple numbers on different parts, which may be the same or different.

All guns already have them, so I am a little confused. And how would this tie into our database solution?

Same as a car lience plate. Put the registration number of the microdots and when each gun is brought in to be registered it gets a number of microdots added with its registration number on them, and that is the number that goes into the DB. When a gun comes in, check for the microdots instead of the serial number for what to put into the search.

 

[Mudcat]

I really wish I did not have to be a member of the NRA. They're making me almost sick to my stomach.

If you don't want to be a member then leave, it's not like they're holding a gun to your head.

But anyway, as to the topic. How do I think he got the gun? I don't know, it's not like we live in a country where we have a significant problem of having way too many firearms to manage and keep out of the hands of criminals or anything.