Magnetic Mumbo Jumbo

[Mojo]

There goofs are claiming this was tested and approved by a British Government agency, surely they're going to catch it in the neck if someone finds out? Shouldn't we notify the Dept of Transport and the Trading Standards people to go have a word with them concerning their advert for this piece of expensive nonsense?

Well, the ASA seem to pick up their print adverts if someone reports them, but they don't cover stuff being sold on websites.

I don't think the Dept of Transport would be concerned as long as a modification doesn't make vehicles unroadworthy (and I suspect that this device does nothing at all), so it would be down to Trading Standards. They aren't centralised so don't have a huge budget (each council has its own trading standards dept) and have to prove their case well enough to satisfy the criminal burden of proof to bring a successful prosecution.

I'm about to report an unrelated website to my local trading standards; I'll see how that goes.

 

[Mojo]

Incidentally, here's another one caught by the ASA. At least this lot had an excuse.

They said the subject of magnets brought out scepticism and antagonism in official organisations, because a testing regime that was appropriate for use with magnetic devices could not be created.

 

[Skepiroth]

I had no idea how much magnetic crap there was for sale! I wonder how much money this website brings in.

Most of the stuff out there on magnetics is utter crap... especially stuff about magnetism in matter. My capstone project required knowledge of magnetostatics and sifting through the BS I found performing online searches became a very real problem. Fun exercise: try to find information regarding equations which define the intensity of the magnetic field at any point above a chunk of magnetic matter whilst not going crazy from hearing about how magnets heal you, enhance your love life, etc....

 

[RSLancastr]

You gotta love the "Here's how it was explained to me" line!

It absolves him of guilt if it doesn't work, and it gives him an excuse for not being able to answer any tough follow-up questions.

 

[Mechbob]

As a former auto mechanic I will let you all in on a dastardly secret.
Magnets have been used in the automotive industry for the past 100 years!
Yes, that's right, and they are cleverly hidden so that the unsuspecting public can never find them.
Here's a few examples:
Most maunufacturers disguise the magnet to look like an oil drain plug!
Some are cleverly designed to fit inside fuel and oil filters under the pretense of trapping iron particles.
Several American companies actualy hid the fuel pump in the fuel tank, under the false impression that no one would find the magnet on the end of the fuel inlet!
Of course, knowing how incideous the public could be, some manufacturers went to the trouble of making fuel lines out of plastic. The excuse they always give is that this makes the fuel line non conductive to electric charges and thus fire proof. Of course, I know the real reason was to make after market magnets useless, thus continuing the auto manufacturers monoploy on magnet production.
,,,,,,, I want to warn the public, keep those fuel line magnets away from the incredibly powerful spinning magents of your car's alternator! ,,,,,,,,,, The results are akin to anti-matter coming into contact with peanut butter!

 

[Mechbob]

As a former auto mechanic I will let you all in on a dastardly secret.
Magnets have been used in the automotive industry for the past 100 years!
Yes, that's right, and they are cleverly hidden so that the unsuspecting public can never find them.
Here's a few examples:
Most maunufacturers disguise the magnet to look like an oil drain plug!
Some are cleverly designed to fit inside fuel and oil filters under the pretense of trapping iron particles.
Several American companies actualy hid the fuel pump in the fuel tank, under the false impression that no one would find the magnet on the end of the fuel inlet!
Of course, knowing how incideous the public could be, some manufacturers went to the trouble of making fuel lines out of plastic. The excuse they always give is that this makes the fuel line non conductive to electric charges and thus fire proof. Of course, I know the real reason was to make after market magnets useless, thus continuing the auto manufacturers monoploy on magnet production.
,,,,,,, I want to warn the public, keep those fuel line magnets away from the incredibly powerful spinning magents of your car's alternator! ,,,,,,,,,, The results are akin to anti-matter coming into contact with peanut butter!

 

[kevin]

I had no idea how much magnetic crap there was for sale! I wonder how much money this website brings in.

when i wore out the inner linings of my shoes and wanted to buy some new ones it was difficult to find some without magnets in them.

 

[dogbite666]

The people that own this site:

http://www.ecohealth.ik.com/

Had some 'issues' with me asking probing questions about their products on the forum. If you go to the site and follow the 'Enquiry' link you can ask them all about how their products 'work'. I seriously suggest you all have go.

Dog.

 

[Kenny 10 Bellys]

I don't think the Dept of Transport would be concerned as long as a modification doesn't make vehicles unroadworthy (and I suspect that this device does nothing at all), so it would be down to Trading Standards. They aren't centralised so don't have a huge budget (each council has its own trading standards dept) and have to prove their case well enough to satisfy the criminal burden of proof to bring a successful prosecution.

I have an acquaintance that works for the local trading standards team, I'll ask his opinion but I think he spends his days tracking down dodgy fireworks salesmen.

The point I'm making is that they are claiming a government agency has tested these things and know they work, which I have to believe is completely false. I'm not looking at it from the point of view of the agency worrying about car reliability, but from the view that they are claiming government approval. It would be like me putting up adverts claiming I was a government approved breast examiner, sanctioned by the NHS. Actually....

 

[Cuddles]

There appears to be no way to contact them without either purchasing one of their products or calling a premium rate line. Since they are just a distributor I have requested some information Ecoflow Plc. who actually produce the product. Unfortunately, Magnetic Healing have a disclaimer stating "All claims on this site are made by the site owner as an independent distributor and Ecoflow plc accepts no responsibility for the content of any such claims made in relation to Ecoflow plc, its products and/or the Ecoflow business opportunity" so I don't have any high hopes.

 

[Mojo]

The point I'm making is that they are claiming a government agency has tested these things and know they work, which I have to believe is completely false. I'm not looking at it from the point of view of the agency worrying about car reliability, but from the view that they are claiming government approval. It would be like me putting up adverts claiming I was a government approved breast examiner, sanctioned by the NHS. Actually....

A problem here is that it appears that the govt agency in question, the Warren Spring environmental lab which was a DTI agency, seems to have been closed down in 1994, so it might be difficult to establish that the thing actually wasn't tested there. I wonder when they started making the claim about it being tested there.

 

[dogbite666]

I have an acquaintance that works for the local trading standards team, I'll ask his opinion but I think he spends his days tracking down dodgy fireworks salesmen.

The point I'm making is that they are claiming a government agency has tested these things and know they work, which I have to believe is completely false. I'm not looking at it from the point of view of the agency worrying about car reliability, but from the view that they are claiming government approval. It would be like me putting up adverts claiming I was a government approved breast examiner, sanctioned by the NHS. Actually....

It would be great if you could do that Kenny, no I dont mean examining breasts! I really want to get this company closed down so they stop selling their snake oil products. What is the protocol you have to go through to do this? I will try and contact Trading Standards but I've not had much joy with them before.

Anyone got any advice on this?

Dog.

 

[Kenny 10 Bellys]

I tend only to see the guy when he's in the pub on a Friday night or at parties, or if we're off playing Airsoft on the same weekend. Next time I see him I'm going to collar him and check out how to go about this. I have no doubt there's going to be a slew of forms and rules, and the fact that this is internet based probably gets around 95% of them. I think if they arent actually causing harm then they'll be low on the list anyway, and if none of us have actually purchased any of this nonsense then we might also be on a sticky wicket. As I say I think the best bet would be the 'false government claim' angle rather than 'this tat doesn't work and costs a lot'.

 

[dogbite666]

I just sent the following email to a supplier of these snake oil products, what you think? Please feel free to send similar mail to this address:

nikki.pepper@ntlworld.com from http://www.magneticnikki.ik.com/

Hi Nikki,

I read your post in the thread I posted on Janey Lee Grace's forum about the Motoflow. You said;

"I seem to remember that they tested it for 10,000 miles on a Vauxhall Cavelier and concluded that more mpg, less emmissions and more torque."

I have looked at the test they did, there is a paper on the ecoflow site about it. In the experiment the do not mention that they used any controls in the trial, by that I mean they didn't even try to rule out bias by measuring the fuel efficency without the device fitted, nor did they blind the driver or observer so they didn't know when the device was or wasn't fitted.

In the November 2004 issue of the British Medical Journal there is a paper about a trial which was carried out to find if Magnet Therapy actually lived up to it's claim. In that conclulsion of that paper it clearly says;

"Pain from osteoarthritis of the hip and knee decreases when wearing magnetic bracelets. It is uncertain whether this response is due to specific or non-specific (placebo) effects."

Every one I ask who advocates or sells these devices has been unable to say how they work. Even Janey Lee Grace, who advocates the use of them in her book, doesn't know. As a scientist I can tell you that not only is there no evidence that these devices work but there is also no way they could possibly have the claimed effect of changing the molecular structure of the chemicals they are said to act upon.

I put it to you that you are selling devices for which there is no evidence that they work.

If you are so certain that the devices you are selling actually work above the placebo effect then I would like to invite you to take a challenge. If you can show beyond doubt that your devices do indeed work above placebo then you will win $1million. Please go to http://www.randi.org and fill out the application form. If you like I will help you to design a test protocol which will show whether these devices work or not. If you loose the challenge then by all moral standards you should cease to sell these products.

I am going to stick my neck out here and guess that your not going to take that challenge. Instead I think you will make a lot of lame excuses as to why you wont. That in it's self is confirmation that you know full well that these devices do not work and you are defrauding the general public. If that is the case, or you ignor my email, I will take it upon myself to ensure that Trading Standards are informed of your, and many others, fraudulent activity.

I look forward to hearing from you very soon.

John Hunsley. B.Sc M.Sc.