Magic Audiophile Gear

[Ladewig]

I think it's all still fraud ethically, no matter what harm is or is not done, and no matter how satisfied the customer is, if the person perpetrating it knows it's untrue.

Oh, I'll agree with that. These shysters are as crooked as they come. I was commenting on whether or not it was fraud in a legal sense.

 

[force_redo]

I think it's all still fraud ethically, no matter what harm is or is not done, and no matter how satisfied the customer is, if the person perpetrating it knows it's untrue. That's an abuse of trust and exploitation of others' foolishness. I find it nearly impossible to believe that someone who takes a piece of surplus electronic junk, or a sticky label, or a cheap chinese clock, and resells it as a magic device for audio, actually believes what he says. If he did, and he were honest, he'd acknowledge that you can buy the same clock somewhere else, and have it perform the same miracles. For something this silly and unlikely, I think there's sufficient presumption of guilt on ethical grounds to accuse these people of it, even if one cannot make a case in court.

Ok, I admit you have a point here. And I guess it's actually the reason why most of us (not here on this forum, I mean "out there") don't do these things.
ETA: (Except from the prospect of "Ladewig's hell")
I was carried away by my future business plans, I guess... ;-)

However, I still have problems calling it fraud, I find this a bit harsh. Can somebody help me out with a better word? For me it's like selling a horoscope or a lucky charm or go to an "alternative doctor" or fortune teller. All these people know what they're selling, but people who buy it should be well aware of what they're getting. Most of them are old enough...

I would still like to know how you see people who advertise their washing soap to be much better in washing your clothes than the competitive brand?
Or, to put it more generally: What is your opinion of advertisments as such?

FR

 

[Flange Desire]

I am not at all shy about using the word FRAUD for ads that lie about the operation and performance of a product.

It is a very bad thing when such frauds are accepted by the general population as 'normal'. Along with the current widespread acceptance of wooism, this is another symptom of 'the big dumb-down'.

If enough complaints are made to the appropriate consumer protection agencies then these fraudulent advertisers will eventually be bought to task.
Unfortunately these agencies seem to be quite inefficient at detecting such scams for themselves, so it is up to us (as potential consumers), to bring them to the notice of the agencies.

Excuse me for re-asking the question -
Has anyone seen Geoff Kait's products marketed down here in oz?
My googling has not turned up much of interest so far.

 

[LTC8K6]

That $10 dollar fuel filter can't possibly have fixed my engine trouble! It still seems to be running rough to me. I think I really need a new engine.....

But sir, I test drove it and it ran like a champ...

Bah! I'm going to a real mechanic to get a compression test....

Sometimes people just think that expensive = better. The more you charge for something, the more enthusiastic they are about it. The very fact that a piece of wire costs 20X as much as zip cord makes these folks act as if it's automatically better. Their stereo suddenly sounds better and they tell everyone they can to buy the special wire. No amount of explanation will ever get them to believe that lamp cord does the job just as well.

After a while, they are so deep into the special wire story or whatever, that they can't back off the claims because they will look like a fool. They've told all their friends, argued at length, lost a few friends, spent a lot of money, etc...

They now have a stereo system that costs 10 or 20 times as much as their neighbor's, and their neighbor still can't hear the difference.

 

[LTC8K6]

Why don't most folks do anything about these frauds? Yes, they are absolutely frauds, and nothing like soap commercials, imo.

Just look at TV. When you see Kevin Trudeau back on the air, you tend to give up hope, I think. I know I do. Then you see his totally useless book on the bestseller list..... arrrrrghhhhhh!!!!!!!

I just try to tell those around me about these types of frauds.

As far as hoping the FCC or FTC will do anything........I hold little hope at all.

 

[Ladewig]

Why don't most folks do anything about these frauds?

Ah, but that is a different question. All law enforcement agencies and regulatory agencies have limited resources. Every day they must make decisions about how to allocate these resources. I agree with their decisions that the people selling Quatro trackers are much more dangerous and harmful to society than the people selling speaker cable elevators. Determining how cheated the victims feel is irrelevant to whether or not the sellers are committing fraud, but that question is very relevant to determing who should be prosecuted.

 

[LTC8K6]

I meant the general rabble, not the government agencies.

I suppose if enough people hollered about Trudeau, and made a big enough stink, he'd be put out of business by the powers that be.....and lack of business.....

 

[Reeco]

That $10 dollar fuel filter can't possibly have fixed my engine trouble! It still seems to be running rough to me. I think I really need a new engine.....

But sir, I test drove it and it ran like a champ...

Bah! I'm going to a real mechanic to get a compression test....

Sometimes people just think that expensive = better. The more you charge for something, the more enthusiastic they are about it. The very fact that a piece of wire costs 20X as much as zip cord makes these folks act as if it's automatically better. Their stereo suddenly sounds better and they tell everyone they can to buy the special wire. No amount of explanation will ever get them to believe that lamp cord does the job just as well.

After a while, they are so deep into the special wire story or whatever, that they can't back off the claims because they will look like a fool. They've told all their friends, argued at length, lost a few friends, spent a lot of money, etc...

They now have a stereo system that costs 10 or 20 times as much as their neighbor's, and their neighbor still can't hear the difference.

Some business expert here in the UK (can't remember his name) visited a company who sold a bottled milkshake drink. They really believed they had a good product, but it just wasn't selling. His advice? Put a gold band around the bottle and triple the price. It worked - the company's sales rocketed.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Just bought a new set of headphones, because my trusty old set finally went south .

On the back of the package, they inform me that the cord is made of oxygen-free copper. Now, I tried to find a set that did not spout this nonsense, but it was on every set in that shop. Actually it figures; after all, I have never seen a wire made of copper oxyde .

This was not audiophile gear, it was just a plain vanilla 40$ set of headphones

I think this migration of the nonsense to mainstream equipment is a very good reason to fight it.

Hans

 

[force_redo]

I think this migration of the nonsense to mainstream equipment is a very good reason to fight it.
Hans

Yeah, I know. When I bought my stereo (the speakers actually support bi-wiring since "some customers are requesting this", as the manual states) I specifically asked for the thinnest speaker cables they had. Those were apparently out of stock and I got the second thinnest ones.
Now I have these two garden hose thick copper pipelines in my flat and all my friends laugh at me and I have to explain over and over again that I didn't deliberately buy these.

Later, for my rear speakers I got the thinner model but even that one is still approx 4mm in diameter.

*sigh*

FR

P.S.: Now with my alarm clock in my bedromm all this stuff could start making a difference, of course...
P.P.S.: No, I don't buy at woo-woo hifi, but rather at a normal UK hifi chain that offers good value for money, I think. Maybe you know it in the US, too. It's called "Richer Sounds"

 

[Freethinker]

Yeah, I know. When I bought my stereo (the speakers actually support bi-wiring since "some customers are requesting this", as the manual states) I specifically asked for the thinnest speaker cables they had. Those were apparently out of stock and I got the second thinnest ones.

A friend has a lakefront home with a deck and gazebo near the water. A few years ago he hosted his sister's small wedding, and wanted to have music at the gazebo, which is a couple of hundred feet from his high-end audio system in the house. He asked me to take care of it (I'm an electrical engineer) as he was swamped with other stuff. I unhooked a 220V power line that we had run down to the dock a few years earlier for a pressure washer, and connected the system to the power cable with zip cord. At the dock end, I used a 220 connector and two pieces of zip cord to connect the speakers. Numerous compliments that evening about the sound.

 

[Freethinker]

Sometimes people just think that expensive = better.

Very true. When I was a teenager, I made a fair bit of spending money fixing TVs and other small appliances for neighbors. Most of what I did was fixing bad solder or replacing a tube or cleaning a tuner or volume control. If I gave it a shot of tuner cleaner or something else very simple and it fixed it, if I didn't charge them at least $20, they acted like I hadn't really done anything. Many would buy another TV thinking I had only hidden the problem.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

I'm a member of some audiophile forums, and the saddest thing about all this nonsense is that, it doesnt matter how well you argue, or how the others end without rational arguments... They will continue to ask about "the better cable" at the next opportunity.

How some beliefs perpetuate is strange (for me).