jimtron
Illuminator
This thread won't stay on topic, so I started this one.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Heh. Well, if the stated topic is the religious war of Mac vs. PC, I'll point out here that SkeptiChick's statement that on a Mac you can drag and drop files to attach them to emails surprised me, since you can do that on a PC too. And always have been able to. Win-M or Win-D hides all active windows, Alt-Tab scrolls through active windows, and although I don't use the function, Vista has widgets too.
For the record, I use a PC, but I don't hate Macs. I happen to use a PC because it's what I have used most, but the first computer I used regularly was a Mac. I'd happily use one again if I had a reason to.
Macs can pretty much do anything PCs can do, and vice versa. This was not always true in the past, but it is today. Whether you use one or the other is largely up to individual preference.
For the record, I use a PC, but I don't hate Macs. I happen to use a PC because it's what I have used most, but the first computer I used regularly was a Mac. I'd happily use one again if I had a reason to.
Macs can pretty much do anything PCs can do, and vice versa. This was not always true in the past, but it is today. Whether you use one or the other is largely up to individual preference.
not daSkeptic
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Moon-Spinner
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This pretty much sums it up for me too. I'm a Dual-User, I have, and use them both, and can't say one is better than the other for any nit-picky reasons. I use each one for specific software that I need to use. The newer Mac OS runs pretty cleanly, and if you know how to tweak the Windows Systems (remove the eye-candy and effects) it will function as fast as a Mac OS.
One thing that turns people off from PCs is a combo of windows effects and bloatware, get rid of that fat and it will run so much faster, but the average user doesn't know this.
jimtron
Illuminator
I concur--it's a matter of personal preference. Yes there are differences, each has pros and cons, but both are quite capable. I happen to prefer Macs, and believe there worth the extra money, for the hardware design alone. If you find Macs to be overpriced and like PCs, get a PC. It depends on your personal preferences and priorities. I really don't think one is significantly better than the other.
fullflavormenthol
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I bought a PC to upgrade and all that stuff, and I found that I really don't care. Flexibility really means something if I actually cared enough to want to really upgrade things all the time.
So now I just run XP on a bootcamp partition, and it runs pretty clean and takes care of the 3ds Max work I need to do.
I hate when computer discussions, like a guy asking for advice on how to use his computer, have to turn into a stupid debate that is really pointless anymore.
So now I just run XP on a bootcamp partition, and it runs pretty clean and takes care of the 3ds Max work I need to do.
I hate when computer discussions, like a guy asking for advice on how to use his computer, have to turn into a stupid debate that is really pointless anymore.
Davidlpf
Muse
A pc vs. mac war would be healthy distraction from whether Obama is satan/hitler/ceaser would be a good thing.
PC here but both a fairly good but with mac you seem to be paying more for looks then anything else.
PC here but both a fairly good but with mac you seem to be paying more for looks then anything else.
I just think that Macs are overpriced. Especially the Mac Pro, which is the only one that can really be upgraded. There is just no reason for that computer to cost $2500. For that money I could build (or just buy) a computer that is much, much better. But then again, it wouldn't have the pretty case. 
tesscaline
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I don't mean from a directory... I mean, I have a picture open on my desktop. I can take that picture window, file open, application and everything, and drag the window to an open email being composed. When I do that, the file is automatically attached to the email.
The rest of what I mentioned, about the keyboard shortcuts, was not saying those were any action windows was not capable of, but was more saying that the keyboard shortcuts were different.
See... While a windows machine might be able to do what a Mac can, and a mac can do what a windows machine can, that's not really the issue. Although, there are some differences when it comes to OS.
Yes, my printer works equally well on a mac as it does on a windows machine. However, on a mac, it took 30 seconds to install (literally). On a windows machine, 4 hours. Yes, you read that right. 4 HOURS.
My digital camera works great on both platforms. On the mac? No install process required at all. Just plug it in, boom photos. On windows? 30 minutes of installing software and drivers before photos.
Setting up a new network connection on mac? 30 seconds. On windows? Who the heck knows how long, but I've seen struggles ranging anywhere from 10 minutes to giving up after no result in 3 hours -- the exact same network that a mac could connect to with no problem, and there were not any hardware issues, it was just the software.
The argument "you could build a computer for less" will never fly with me (whether or not it's actually true) because the cost of the computer isn't just how long it takes to build. It's how much time it sucks out of your life over the course of it's own.
Over the course of my life, I've used most of the major (and some of the not so major) operating systems out there. DOS, Unix, Linux (in various forms), Mac (when it wasn't unix), Windows... The list goes on. Hell, I grew up using DEC Alpha stations in my dad's lab, and unix terminals at home to dial into a university server on a 28.8 connection. I'm no stranger to computers or how they work. I've built them, repaired them, upgraded them, formatted them and reformatted them. And hands down, modern Mac is the absolute least amount of work.
PC (and yeah, linux too sometimes) is great if you're happy wasting your time dealing with inane issues that keep coming up over and over and over again no matter how many times they get "fixed". Personally, I don't particularly enjoy wasting my time. So I use a computer that "just works". That's my personal preference -- to not waste my time and effort on frustrations that simply should not exist. I am willing to pay more in the short run so I end up paying less in the long run. So I do. And I'm 100% satisfied.
not daSkeptic
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Companies will sometimes charge high-fees in order to discourage certain classes of people from buying. It's a foreign concept to some -- why would any business want to dismiss potential customers -- but it has its value.
jimtron
Illuminator
For some people it's worth extra money to have a beautifully designed computer on their desk. Like I said, it's a personal preference. And I think there are legit reasons it costs $2500.But then again, it wouldn't have the pretty case.
The Apple Mac Cost Misconception
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portlandatheist
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I own a very nice mac book that I've had for about a year now. I mostly work with PCs but also Solaris, SuSe, etc.
My biggest complaint about the Macs are their price. Everything, and I mean everything, is overpriced compared to a PC. As far as desktops are concerned, its great to be able to upgrade your sound card, your video card, etc. and do it on the cheap. Mac...not so much.
On the other hand, things I LOVE about the MAC: it boots and shuts down so fast. This is amazing to me how fast I can press "on" and be surfing the net or press "off" and the thing is shut down. I also love having the shell built in along with MySQL, and Apache.
Macs are great, but they are way over priced.
My biggest complaint about the Macs are their price. Everything, and I mean everything, is overpriced compared to a PC. As far as desktops are concerned, its great to be able to upgrade your sound card, your video card, etc. and do it on the cheap. Mac...not so much.
On the other hand, things I LOVE about the MAC: it boots and shuts down so fast. This is amazing to me how fast I can press "on" and be surfing the net or press "off" and the thing is shut down. I also love having the shell built in along with MySQL, and Apache.
Macs are great, but they are way over priced.
I don't know was up with your computer or what version of Windows you are using, but I've never had any of the problems you've described. Actually, Vista/7 automatically installed the drivers for every USB device I have as soon as they were plugged in.
jimtron
Illuminator
Here's a Mac Pro vs. PC equivalent where the Mac is cheaper--even with an Apple display:
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2006/0809_dt3200.html
More shootouts: http://www.systemshootouts.org/ (OK, this site is probably Mac biased--let's see some other comparisons if anyone knows of any).
Also, AFAIK Apple support is rated higher than many (most?) other computer makers--that's worth something. And again, money goes into the nicely designed hardware, which isn't for everybody, but some folks are willing to pay a bit extra for that.
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2006/0809_dt3200.html
More shootouts: http://www.systemshootouts.org/ (OK, this site is probably Mac biased--let's see some other comparisons if anyone knows of any).
Also, AFAIK Apple support is rated higher than many (most?) other computer makers--that's worth something. And again, money goes into the nicely designed hardware, which isn't for everybody, but some folks are willing to pay a bit extra for that.
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tesscaline
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Have you actually looked at the design of the case? It's not just about looks. It's functional. Custom air flow design, specialized heat zones, ease of access to components, custom connections that eliminate the need to dig through layers of ribbon cable...I just think that Macs are overpriced. Especially the Mac Pro, which is the only one that can really be upgraded. There is just no reason for that computer to cost $2500. For that money I could build (or just buy) a computer that is much, much better. But then again, it wouldn't have the pretty case.
Macs are not for people who want to waste their time putzing around trying to get junk to work. It's for people who actually want to spend the majority of their time on their computers, well, using their computers.
I really think that the people saying they could do better than Mac for cheaper haven't actually looked at what Mac is really providing. They're not providing a toy to be rodded out and have fins soldered on.
I think this whole Mac vs. PC thing is pretty stupid. If you want to screw around with your computer and risk botching it up so badly that you fry the motherboard, don't get a Mac. If you want a computer that you don't have to futz with every five seconds to get it to operate properly, and just want something that will do what it says it will do when it says it will do it, then Mac is probably more your style.
The only reason this Mac vs. PC thing goes on as much as it does is because some people think that every computer on the face of the earth should conform to their personal preferences, and think that every other person on the face of the earth should want the exact same things out of a computer that they do. Sorry, the world doesn't work that way.
In fact, thats pretty much the only reason I end up involved in these stupid debates -- because someone comes along and says that anyone who prefers what I happen to prefer is stupid, or wasting their money, or just interested in how the thing looks. I don't care if you personally like Mac or not. But I don't think it's cool to go talk crap about the people who DO happen to appreciate Mac -- especially to the degree that they think its a good idea to derail a thread just to bash someone who has already made their choice over the head with how wrong that choice is.
$1000+ extra?
Not really.
I think all that proves is that the particular laptops they compared the Macs to were similarly overpriced because there were certainly better laptops available for cheaper that they could have compared instead.
tesscaline
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I would encourage you to do some heavy research into exact price comparisons for equal machines instead of just noticing that you can get a bargain basement tower system from dell for $399, whereas mac's cheapest machine is $700. Yes, if all you look at is the lowest price available, mac seems more expensive. If you actually look at what you're getting hardware spec wise for that money? Not so much.
jimtron
Illuminator
Evidence?
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Yes, I can do that on a PC too. Always have been able to. ETA: Unless you talk about going back fifteen years to the DOS age. I couldn't do it then.
I took 30 seconds to install my printer on my Vista laptop.
Again, less than 30 seconds to read files from my digital camera.
My Vista laptop saw my home wireless network and its internet connection first time, no problem. I didn't even actually install anything - it worked without intervention, first time. I booted the machine and it was simply there. I take it somewhere else, and if there's a wireless connection available, I tell it to connect and it connects in less than thirty seconds.
And that's great that it works for you. My experience is that PCs "just work", and I never seem to need to spend the time over them that you obviously have. Oh, there is the occasional problem, but it is invariably self-inflicted, since I like to muck about with things, and I suspect I'd have those problems on Mac or Linux as well. For example, while I was in the US, I managed to turn off my laptop's external speakers. I haven't yet worked out how I did it, or how to fix it. Point being, this is something that I did, and not something to do with the fact that I'm running Windows.
My experience with PCs is just not the same as yours. It's great that Macs work for you, and agree that there's absolutely no reason you should change. But your experiences with PCs (poor though they have been) do not necessarily generalise to others, and are not indicative of any inherent weakness in Windows itself.
And for the record, although it's been quite a while since I've used MAC OS, my experience was not that it was bombproof.
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not daSkeptic
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You were already given one.