Lucid Dreaming

[Orangutan]

Well, I have had two lucid dreams. Shortly after learning about them.

My First experience was when I was about 18. I was in the College dining hall and my friend asked my If I'd done the physics summer work. I told him I hadn't and that 2 weeks off during the summer was too short a time. That's when I realised I was dreaming. Just like a movie I stopped all action in the hall, it was like time froze. Then I thought I'd go for a fly around. All the people dissapeared and I remember flying oround the hall and out of the window. I'd guess the time inside the dream was about 2 mins before the dream took over again and people were chasing me because I was flying. I forgot I was dreaming and it was a normal dream again.

The second Time was a dissapointment. I was fighting in the trenches of world war I when I realised I shouldn't be there. I just woke up straight away. And fell back asleep to have another dream (about somthing a bit more convincing I guess).

Now I'm in my thirties, I'm not sure if my quality of sleep is down but I do not seem to dream as vividly as when I was young. I used to have crazy dreams where I would be other people, even animals, when I was very young, but I am always me in my dreams now.

As a side note, In one of my most vivid dreams when I was a child I was a horse, in a field!. I remember looking at the cattle grate in the field entrance thinking I'm not going to tread on that, and looking over the wall, and mooching about my field looking for grass to eat and shade to stand in. Verry bizzare.

I'm married now and my wife thinks I may have been a horse in a past life. She's basing that on the physical evidence though. (wink wink).

O.

 

[FreakBoy]

I've had a lucid dream once before. What made me realize I was in a dream was that I couldn't read, and I remembered that people in dreams couldn't read...And then I could control myself fully.

There's always an exception to the rule. Both my father and I can read in our dreams.

I dream lucidly on occasion, and semi-licidly almost nightly. I also have had a long on-going battle with sleep paralysis (though I haven't had a spell of that in over a year, while I used to get in on a nightly basis for a few years).

When I say that I dream semi-lucidly I realize that's similar to saying one is semi-pregnant. What I mean by it is that I can almost always tell when I'm dreaming, as well as tell immediately if the dream is a nightmare, a sex dream, or any of the other handful of dream "types" that I experience. There is a palpable feel to the different categories of my dreams and it takes moments for me to recognize what type the dream is and wake myself if necessary.

On the topic of dream-control while in my semi-lucid state, in fact the main reason I call it semi-lucid is due to the level of control I have. The events that I can influence in a semi-lucid dream almost always follow the physics of the waking world. So if I'm dreaming that I have a magic wand with the ability to cast spells, at the moment that I become semi-lucid the magic wand will fail working.... or I'll no longer be able to fly etc.

Again with reading, I found my main obsticle when attempting to read is that my mind knows that to read one must have their eyes open. If I am not very careful about how I approach the task of reading my mind will attempt to open my eyes which then wakes me up.

Other interesting dream thingies:

I've been murdered in my dreams well over 10 times in my life.
I've even started a dream dead and been brought back to life.
I do not wake up when I fall from a great height... I land, dust myself off, and attempt to find the place I fell from again (the freefall sensation is too fun to resist).
The appearance of a location may be comepletely fantastic but almost always retains a reference location in the waking world. For example, I could say I was at the place where my elementary school would be in real life but in the dream is happens to be an amusement park (and in the dream always HAS been).

And then for my diatribe:

Dream interpertation is one of the biggest loads of hooey I've ever heard. Many people that remember enough of their dreams to become interested in interpretation seem to only be able to take away the "visual" aspect of the dream. There are so many layers beyond the "visual" in my dreams that I find it hard to believe that dreams could be interpreted based on the visual alone.... or interpreted at all without creating an extensive language to discuss the multifaceted nature of each experience in a dream. In the waking world I might suggest that we can easily tally the days events based on remembering the visual movie of the day due to our extreme reliance on our eyes to guide us through our tasks. In a dream we need not rely as heavily on our eyes and ears for stimulae. /diatribe

 

[balrog666]

Has anyone on these boards heard anything about this or maybe experienced it first hand and would like to talk about it?

More usual is an ability to direct dreaming into a particular area, such as to solve an otherwise intractible problem. The approaches taken in dreams are often very different than those used in ordinary problem solving and can provide insight into a solution that would otherwise never be considered at all.

Mnay people actively use such techniques and studies have shown that we can even make (previously agreed upon) physical recognition signals while staying asleep.

All it takes is practice. But I can also point that if you get stuck on a really unsolvable problem, you can wake up completely exhausted.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

There's always an exception to the rule. Both my father and I can read in our dreams.

Can you read an entire page of a book? Because if you are talking about single sentences I can too. But most of the time the sentence changes every time I read it, sometimes, it doesnt make sense at all.

 

[BillyJoe]

LATE REPLY (been away for a week)

BDZ,

Oh yes. It is a pretty interesting feeling. You realice you are dreaming but the perceptive quality is as good as in here. And Im talking about the sensation of breathing, the feeling of moving (gravity for example), seeing, hearing, you name it.

So how do you know if you're awake or just having a lucid dream?

The only thing I cant do is take a book and read. The same sentence change every time you read it, it is strange.

This is my favourite suggestion to someone who says their lucid dreams are indistinguishable from the awake state. But surely there must be other clues as well otherwise....how do you know if you're awake or just having a lucid dream apart from when you reading?

BJ

 

[BillyJoe]

I've now read the rest of this thread and I have to say I agree with Jeremy. It is very unlikely that your brain can reproduce the detail in a dream (when there is no sensory input) that it does when awake (when it is receiving sensory input).

BTW, I think we are mixing together lucid and vivid dreams:
Lucid dreams are dreams when you are aware you are dreaming (I have these all the time)
Vivid dreams are dreams where the detail is so good that it is indistinguishable from being awake. (I believe that this cannot happen)

Also the reading thing.....I also believe it is not possible to read (except for a sentence or so) while dreaming. The reason is that when you are awake and reading you don't know what you are about to read until you are actually reading it. But if you are reading in your dream, the story being read is being created by you and translated into words on the page as you are reading it. You might be able to keep this up for a sentence or so but not much longer.

BJ

 

[pgwenthold]

Sorry to bring this up again. I'd like to turn my post into a question.

As I said above, once I become aware that I'm dreaming, my mind ruins it for me. My thoughts quickly go from, "Wow, I'm dreaming!" to "I can fly!" to "I'm not really flying at all." In fact, I think, "How would I even know what it feels or looks like to fly?" and I wake up.

How do you control the "logical" part of your brain (thoughts?) from spoiling it?

On the contrary, that is usually the point of my lucid dreams. I usually go lucid when I am having a very bad dream, but then I can reassure myself that I am just dreaming, so I am less disturbed.

More specific, my most commonly recurring dream is about tornados. I have had so many tornado dreams in my life that nowadays, when I have a tornado dream, I usually dismiss it as a dream, even while it is happening. OTOH, I still don't really have a lot of control of my actions in the dream, but I know I am dreaming.

 

[FreakBoy]

Can you read an entire page of a book? Because if you are talking about single sentences I can too. But most of the time the sentence changes every time I read it, sometimes, it doesnt make sense at all.

I've not attempted to read an entire book, but I have read menus for restaurants. At times things have shifted, but at other times they remained the same.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Re: LATE REPLY (been away for a week)

BDZ,

So how do you know if you're awake or just having a lucid dream?

BJ

Thats the point, sometimes, I HONESTLY DONT KNOW. Its an amazing feeling.

 

[BillHoyt]

Years ago, I had a recurrent nightmare in which I and a small group of friends died. By the fourth or fifth iteration of this dream, it became a lucid dream. Just before we were all to die, I turned to them (in my dream) and said "I remember this dream. We've got to go this way -- right now." We did. We survived, and the dream-plot then went on so that we were pursuing the people trying to kill us. The actual lucid period lasted quite a while. I was very aware I was dreaming, but was only in partial control of events. If I remember correctly, I was in control (or partial control) of my responses to events I was dreaming up...

 

[Cecil]

I've been interested in lucid dreams ever since I had one when I was about 10 years old. There is an excellent 200 page book on the subject called The Ultimate Lucid Dreaming Manual. It gets into details such as the best ways to induce them, how to maintain lucidity as the dream starts to fade, how to better control the physics of the dream-world, and even which body positions work best for flying. Highly recommended.

The above-discussed methods of inducing lucidity all work well. I've used reality checks (rereading a sentence or rechecking the time on a watch) to some success. The easiest way is to go to bed normally, but set your alarm to wake you up after 6 hours. Get up, do something for half an hour, then go back to bed. You will likely fall directly into REM sleep, and often lucidity directly. It is also possible, though very difficult, to maintain consciousness throughout the process of falling asleep. You can feel your body being paralyzed, and a dream materializes before your eyes.

Another thing that I like is keeping a dream journal. As soon as you wake up, write down everything you can remember about your dream. This will help you with dream recall; I usually have 2 or 3 dreams for every night in my journal. You can analyze these for common or recurring signs, and train yourself to notice them when they pop up.

I've found that the best way to do something normally impossible, like going to the moon or making a person appear out of thin air, is simply to create in your mind the expectation that it will happen. Opening a door that you expect to lead to a Mars colony is surprisingly effective. In fact, walking through a door (or a mirror, if you can) works well for changing your environment if you expect something to be on the other side.

Flying for me has always been relatively easy - I take off like an airplane. Other ways to try it are jumping off something really high and trying to soar, or climbing an invisible yet solid staircase. Remember, you have to EXPECT it to work.

Sex is difficult. I've tried it several times with fantastic results, but to me the activity is very emotionally charged and I find that it wakes me up almost immediately.

Speaking of which, if you find the dream starting to fade, you need to create a disparity between the sensation you feel (in the dream) and the sensation your body feels (lying in bed). Rub your hands together, or spin around in circles. Anything to make it more difficult for your mind to make the transition from dream sensations to real sensations.

Repeating to yourself, "I'm lucid" at minute or 30-second intervals also seems to help maintain lucidity. It's very easy to forget that you're dreaming and slip back into a regular dream.

With sufficient practice anything is possible. There's no reason you have to be constrained by the physics of reality. Walking through walls, reversing the polarity of gravity, or experiencing yourself as a disembodied mind are all possible to accomplish. Like anything, you just need to work at it. The fruits are well worth the labour.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Cecil

Good to read another experimented Lucid Dreamer! I want to try harder that about going to the dream state directly from the waking state. So far, Im unable to do it, all I can is to reach states of consciousness in which I start to listen things (sometimes conversations), and then some visual things starts to appear. As you say, it is VERY difficult.

 

[Cecil]

Cecil

Good to read another experimented Lucid Dreamer! I want to try harder that about going to the dream state directly from the waking state. So far, Im unable to do it, all I can is to reach states of consciousness in which I start to listen things (sometimes conversations), and then some visual things starts to appear. As you say, it is VERY difficult.

I have had similar experiences. I get auditory and visual hallucinations after 30 to 60 minutes, but it rarely progresses into a full-blown dream. It's much easier, though still hard, if you sleep for 6 hours first, as I mentioned above.

It's rather zen; you almost have to dissociate yourself from what you're experiencing, as though you're an outside observer. Clear your mind and go with the flow.

I've heard there are monks that spend 24 hours a day conscious.

 

[BillyJoe]

Re: Re: LATE REPLY (been away for a week)

BDZ,

Thats the point, sometimes, I HONESTLY DONT KNOW. Its an amazing feeling.

You mean it works both ways? You can be awake and not know if you are actually lucidly dreaming??

(Actually, I think the phrase here should be "vividly dreaming" but what the hell!)

I am going to try an experiment.
As I have said before, I have lucid (but not vivid) dreams all the time. What I am going to try to do from now on whenever I have a lucid dream is to try to make it vivid as well. Perhaps I might try looking at, for example, a leaf and try to add life-like detail or something like that. Any suggestions?

BJ

 

[Z]

I've been a Lucid-at-will deamer for most of my life. I developed the skills after suffering horrid nightmares as a child. And I can tell you - even after years of practice, it's never 'easy'.

First, recognizing that you are dreaming is a hard trick. Most of the time, you just don't care, and flit in and out of one dream after another without any awareness at all. Of course, there are lots of tricks that can be used - sounds in your room as you sleep, light patterns, specific concentrations during the day, etc.

The second trick is STAYING lucid. Your mind can be a great deceiver, and can quickly lure you back into the normal dream-state.

For my own part, I find that once I've acheived lucidity, I have nearly perfect control over the environment of the dream - but very little control over the dream personae within the dream.

Oh, and yes, reading is nearly impossible while dreaming, because the words continually change. It's a frustrating phenomenon.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

BJ,

I understand what you say about "vivid dreams", but for me, if you are not lucid, you have no the necessary "quality of attention".

Regarding your experiment, thats the way to find out whats happening!! just thinking... "nahh, its impossible" doesnt help at all. Please do it!

Your methodology sounds right, focus on a leaf (or anything else that is close to you when you become lucid), and instead of trying to make it "more real" just concentrate on every detail, how the light changes if you move it, the texture, the color, the movement of your hands when you are touching it... every minute thing you can be aware of...

My guess is that you will be amazed and maybe you will recall this thread and think that WOW, how is this possible??

 

[Z]

More importantly - notice how the qualities change as passing thoughts intrude on your awareness!

 

[Placebo]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I find lucid dreaming quite fascinating

What I find amusing, is that nobody has questioned the evidence for it. We have one isolated scientist (Laberge) and his word, and a bunch of anecdotal experiences.
Is that it? Why is everyone accepting it so readily?

 

[Red Siegfried]

Oh yes. It is a pretty interesting feeling. You realice you are dreaming but the perceptive quality is as good as in here. And Im talking about the sensation of breathing, the feeling of moving (gravity for example), seeing, hearing, you name it. The only thing I cant do is take a book and read. The same sentence change every time you read it, it is strange.

I've had that same problem, reading in a dream. It used to drive me nuts and I chalked it up to being uncertain about something in my life. Every time I looked at the words, they change and I'd have to start over.

I know it sounds strange, but I really HAVE had dreams about lucid dreaming. And I also have had dreams that I was dreaming and woke up, still in the dream but not aware. Here's a weird one. One night I smoked a whole pack of cigs in rapid succession so I must have had some oxygen deprivation issues. I kept dreaming that I got out of bed, stumbled into the kitchen, then passed out. I woke up in my bed. Then I got up again, stumbled into the kitchen, passed out again, and woke up in my bed. I really started to freak me out because I thought it was real. Finally I broke the cycle and realized it was a dream. I got up for real, went into the kitchen, and passed out. For real. Only for a few seconds. My wife shook me awake and took me to bed where I slept dreamlessly (as far as I remember) for the rest of the night. I don't want that to happen again.

Most often when I lucid dream, I find it hard to stay in the dream once I realize I'm dreaming. I found a couple of good methods to stay in the dream:

1. Stare at your hands. Focusing on something seems to keep me in the moment.

2. Spin. Spinning with your eyes open seems to make me feel more disconnected from my body. I'm spinning in the dream, but in my bed I'm lying still so I can't feel connected to my physical body. Once I feel myself lying in bed I know I'll wake up so anything I can do to convince myself that I'm not actually in bed helps.

How do you lucid dream purposely? Try doing regular reality checks throughout your day until they get to be a habit. Ask yourself "Am I dreaming? Is this real?" Eventually it gets to be a habit and next thing you know you start doing it when you are dreaming. And you realize you are ...

 

[Beth]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I find lucid dreaming quite fascinating

What I find amusing, is that nobody has questioned the evidence for it. We have one isolated scientist (Laberge) and his word, and a bunch of anecdotal experiences.
Is that it? Why is everyone accepting it so readily?

I appreciate the bump. I missed this thread earlier. As far as questioning the evidence, most people here have been relating their personal experiences. Few people deny what they have themselves experienced, but it's certainly understandable that those who have not would require more concrete evidence.

Myself, I've managed lucid dreaming at times, but not often. It's really helpful when you've been having nightmares because learning to control your dreams mean that you can stop the nightmares. I often do the 'directed dreaming' thing. I've never heard that phrase before, but it fits perfectly what I've done all my life.

Beth