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Lucid Dreaming

burgerjockey

Student
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
38
I was doing some reading up about dreams at Wikipedia and I ran across the term lucid dreaming. Apparently, lucid dreaming is when an individual realizes that they are in a dream and can fully control the dream (can pretty much do whatever they want in a dream setting). While I have never experienced this I have heard enough people say that they have experienced some form of this. The part I am questioning is further on in the article they say some people use techniques to become lucid dreamers, being able to lucid dream whenever they want. I don't know about you guys, but that sounds like it has a touch of the woo in it. Has anyone on these boards heard anything about this or maybe experienced it first hand and would like to talk about it?
 
Well, there's been a few threads on this (I'm too lazy to find them right now).

I can 'lucid dream' ocassionally - when I actually catch myself drifting in and/or out of sleep, either when I'm about to doze off, or better, if I stay in bed for a good, long morning sleep-in (rare, these days, with a 2-1/2 year old kid...).

I usually cannot dictate entirely what I dream, but I can influence events and make what to me feels like concious choices and even force myself to waken up if I find the dream too scary or insurmountably challenging. What I dream about? No - you don't know her anyway ;) Seriously, it's typically something that occupies my mind - family, work, hobbies, food, sex, death etc.

Happy Winter Solstice!
 
burgerjockey said:
....snipe... I don't know about you guys, but that sounds like it has a touch of the woo in it. ...snipe...
What made you said that?
 
I've found that white noise helps greatly, like a pleasant fan or a boat's motor. It helps to be very tired as well, so your body will fall asleep on its own while you try and stay awake with thoughts of naked girls or smiting your enemy... You will actually hear the sound drop out when your body crashes - disappear, not just fade - and that's your cue to let it go but try and stay conscious too. Tell your head to bring the sound back if you think you're "too asleep", and it will pop back on (much as if someone's turning a radio on and off rapidly).

I'm not sure, but I think this lets you get into REM stage where lucidity may happen. Also, it seems to work better waking up than falling asleep (in my opinion) but both ways can happen.

Ever had night paralysis- where your body's in a deep sleep but you're awake and your muscles won't work? The scariest thing is to be like this and think there's an emergency nearby - like a fire or that someone's breaking into your home but you can't do anything. People have been in similar conditions going into surgery, and experienced being opened up while doctors made fun of them... It's basically the opposite of lucid.
 
I had the experience of lucid dreaming, but a couple of days later, I couldn't tell you if it was actually lucid dreaming, or me just dreaming that I was having a lucid dream.
 
thatguywhojuggles said:
I had the experience of lucid dreaming, but a couple of days later, I couldn't tell you if it was actually lucid dreaming, or me just dreaming that I was having a lucid dream.
This is more or less what I was going to say. I'm certain lucid dreaming happens, but I have idea what's really going on.
 
Actually, some Lucid Dreams make you (the subject) think about the "reality" of this world, because everything seems as real as here.
 
thatguywhojuggles said:
I had the experience of lucid dreaming, but a couple of days later, I couldn't tell you if it was actually lucid dreaming, or me just dreaming that I was having a lucid dream.
If you don't add a smily, you can expect to be misunderstood by someone.
 
Like Brian.....

Brian said:
This is more or less what I was going to say. I'm certain lucid dreaming happens, but I have idea what's really going on.
 
Bodhi Dharma Zen said:
Actually, some Lucid Dreams make you (the subject) think about the "reality" of this world, because everything seems as real as here.
Are dreams really ever so lucid that you really cannot tell the difference? Surely when you wake, you really do know that you have woken.
 
Thatguy said:
I had the experience of lucid dreaming, but a couple of days later, I couldn't tell you if it was actually lucid dreaming, or me just dreaming that I was having a lucid dream.
Well then, here's the test: Next time you think you're entering a lucid dream state, get yourself to dream that the dream is not a lucid one.

~~ Paul
 
BillyJoe said:
Are dreams really ever so lucid that you really cannot tell the difference? Surely when you wake, you really do know that you have woken.

Oh yes. It is a pretty interesting feeling. You realice you are dreaming but the perceptive quality is as good as in here. And Im talking about the sensation of breathing, the feeling of moving (gravity for example), seeing, hearing, you name it. The only thing I cant do is take a book and read. The same sentence change every time you read it, it is strange.
 
BillyJoe said:
If you don't add a smily, you can expect to be misunderstood by someone.

I was being honest. Two days after my "lucid dream" I was not able to tell whether my experience was an actual lucid dream, or if it I had just had dreamt that I was having a lucid dream.

I had been doing some reading about lucid dreaming before this happened.
 
I've had a lucid dream once before. What made me realize I was in a dream was that I couldn't read, and I remembered that people in dreams couldn't read...And then I could control myself fully.

Things started happening in the dream, but I could change it. After, I decided to explore...it was a really surreal experience. It was like exploring my own mind, since I decided I could fly (So I did) and view all the landscapes... It was amazing. I'm sure it was lucid, I can still remember making the choices clearly.
 
I've experienced brief lucid dreams a few times. I've never been able to enter LDs at will. A chap named (I think) Stephen Labarge or Lafarge) published a book of techniques years ago. I think his company also sold gizmos that detected REM activity (by monitoring the eyes) and then triggered flashing leds. The idea was, you train yourself to recognise the lights while in your dream. This gives you the ability to fire up sufficient conscious bits to take over management of whatever garbage the rest of your brain is generating.

Outside his books, I never met anyone who had tried these. I wouldn't describe it as irrational. I think there are many gradations between fully awake and fully asleep.
(I'm in one right now.)
 
Soapy Sam said:
I've experienced brief lucid dreams a few times. I've never been able to enter LDs at will. A chap named (I think) Stephen Labarge or Lafarge) published a book of techniques years ago. I think his company also sold gizmos that detected REM activity (by monitoring the eyes) and then triggered flashing leds. The idea was, you train yourself to recognise the lights while in your dream. This gives you the ability to fire up sufficient conscious bits to take over management of whatever garbage the rest of your brain is generating.

Outside his books, I never met anyone who had tried these. I wouldn't describe it as irrational. I think there are many gradations between fully awake and fully asleep.
(I'm in one right now.)

For anyone who wants to Google(tm) him, his name is Stephen Laberge. I believe his "company" is actually an institute at Stanford University and not a private organization. They have developed a sleep mask which detects REM and then flashes a signal light at the eyes to wake the dreamer up which I suppose is one way of obtaining lucidity for dreams which would otherwise be forgotten. Here is a brief profile:

Stephen LaBerge is the first scientist to empirically prove the existence of the phenomena of lucid dreaming. His work has developed this technique into a powerful tool for studying mind-body relationships in the dream state and he has demonstrated the considerable potential for lucid dreaming in the fields of psychotherapy and psychosomatic medicine. His book on the subject, Lucid Dreaming, Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming and his more academic Conscious Mind, Sleeping Brain have received enormous popular interest

Born in 1947, he obtained a B.S. in mathematics from the University of Arizona. At the age of 19 he began graduate studies in chemistry at Stanford University, but in 1968 took a leave of absence to pursue his research interest in psychopharmacology. In 1977 he returned to Stanford to begin studies on dreaming, consciousness and sleep, and received his Ph.D. in Psychophysiology from Stanford's Graduate Special Program in 1980.

He has taught courses on sleep and dreaming, psychobiology and altered states of consciousness at Stanford University, the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, and San Francisco State University. Currently, Stephen is a Research Associate in the Department of Psychology at Stanford University, and Director of Research at the Lucidity Institute; a center he founded to further explore the potential of lucid dreaming. Here he is developing user-friendly technologies such as the DreamLight® to help people to learn the art of lucid dreaming and disseminating information on the conscious dream-state through a quarterly newsletter.

http://www.levity.com/mavericks/lab-int.htm

Here is the institute's website which is an Inc. organization:

http://www.lucidity.com/info.html
 
Bodhi Dharma Zen said:
The only thing I cant do is take a book and read. The same sentence change every time you read it, it is strange.

That is actually a good way to initiate lucid dreams.

I've had some experience lucid dreaming. There's a fair amount of woo stuff about it, especially on the net, but the core is real. You really do realize you're dreaming, it really does feel real, and you really can control your environment, to an extent. In my experience, you also have much better recall of the dream after you wake up.

The method I've had the most success with in initiating a lucid dream takes a fair amount of effort. Periodically during the day, say every hour or so, perform some test to determine if you're awake or not. Like you said, one good test is to try to read something, look away for a few seconds, and then read it again. That's how I achieved my first success in consciously initiating a lucid dream: I was dreaming that I was walking through a hallway, and there was a book sitting on a shelf. Thinking I was due for another "reality check," I picked up the book and read the first sentence, which was something about smugglers (I forget exactly what). When I read it again, it said, "You ought to do something about this." It was suprising to say the least to find out that that actually worked!

Another thing you can do is look at your reflection in a mirror. I'll make eye contact with my reflection, and in a moment its eyes will start moving independently. The drawback of that method is that it's usually so freaky that the shock wakes me up. I've always had a bit of a mirror phobia.

In fact, that's the most difficult thing about it for me. Even if the way I become lucid is mundane, the shock of realizing I'm dreaming -- that nothing I'm experiencing right now is real -- is too much ontological dissonance to handle, and I wake up with my heart pounding, like after a nightmare. It's rare that I can maintain a lucid dream for more than a minute or two.

The other downside of my method is that it's a fair amount of work. You have to keep doing reality checks all day long, just to get yourself in the mental habit enough that you'll "remember" to do it while you're dreaming, too. And it takes time -- it's usually about two or three days of hourly reality-checking before I'll achieve lucidity.

There are some contraptions you can buy that claim to help you with lucid dreaming, mostly to do with sleep masks with computer-controlled blinking lights, but I've never tried them. I imagine they're probably not hard to make if you have some experience with electronics and get the parts at Radio Shack (do they still sell components there?).

As for the dreams themselves, mine are both terrific and disappointing. I have pretty much unlimited power -- except, well, it's limited by my own self-consciousness. For example, I can fly, but I have difficulty controlling myself. Sometimes I jerk violently around a room; other times I can only bring myself to hover a few inches off the floor. Sometimes I have balance problems that prevent me from even walking right (it feels like one leg is longer than the other).

As for sex (come on, that's what you all are thinking about!), it can be good or bad. The excitement can be there, but the physical sensations are a little...distant, at least for me. It makes sense, I suppose, since your body isn't actually getting any real physical stimulation. Or is it just the fact that I believe that which stops me from accepting the full experience? Hard question to answer. The upside of that is that you can do things that are normally very uncomfortable with no difficulty whatsoever.

Jeremy
 
toddjh,

Have you ever tested the "reality" or perceptive quality of your sensations on a LD? You appear to be fairly good at it, so I think it would be interesting.

As for me, I have about 4 LD a week, sometimes several a night. The lucidity sometimes last just for a few seconds but in other dreams I have been able to be lucid for long periods of time.

I have tried everything, from sex (the experience is like yours, not quite as real as in here saddly ;)) to crash cars against buildings, to take drugs on parties, to try to explain dream characters that they are not "real" and are only part of my dream.

I can be god sometimes, with complete control over everything around me, including gravity or natural forces, I can fly as fast and as high as I want, with total control of fine movement to evade branches of trees, for example.

But what I really like to do is to create perceptual realities that are, from my point of view, as real as this one. Its an amazing feeling.
 
Bodhi Dharma Zen said:
Have you ever tested the "reality" or perceptive quality of your sensations on a LD?

Yes, and it varies from dream to dream. Sometimes it feels absolutely real (or maybe I just get the impression that it feels real ;) ), and sometimes it feels strange, almost like I'm looking down on it from above, even though I'm not.

You appear to be fairly good at it, so I think it would be interesting.

Oh, I wouldn't say that. These days I'd say I only have a couple a year. It's just too much of a pain to do the reality checks all the time, which is the only method I've tried that actually worked.

Maybe I should get one of those blinking light gizmos...

I can be god sometimes, with complete control over everything around me, including gravity or natural forces, I can fly as fast and as high as I want, with total control of fine movement to evade branches of trees, for example.

Interesting that I can't...must be psychological. :)

Jeremy
 
It's quite interesting that lucid dreams often involve the ability to fly - mine often do, too. I typically have to really concentrate and tighten all my muscles to get 'airborne', and once there I'm often disappointed about my 'airspeed' and 'altitude' - which perhaps isn't too bad, because I always seem to face a big challenge in just avoiding buildings, trees and high tension wires. In many cases my 'flights' take me to places encountered in my childhood - although once I landed on a WWII aircraft carrier!

It's weird, but very alluring. I always get this feeling of "hmm, okay, I know I'm dreaming this, but it's too interesting and too neat a feeling to miss out on, so I'll just play along and see what happens next, and if I don't like the way things are going I'll just change the circumstances, and if worst comes to worst, I'll wake up", the latter usually meaning with a pounding heart and no wish to join the fun again!

I've also experienced some sort of sleep paralysis a couple of times - one time I 'felt' this overwhelming urge to harm myself and when I eventually managed to wake up I actually woke up with a pair of scissors in my hand! Spooky. The other time I felt absolutely aware of everything in the room - except I just couldn't move anything but my eyes, try as I might. I felt this overwhelming sense of dread, although I could not relate it to anything I could see. Eventually (it felt) I woke up, gasping for air, trembling and with a pounding heart. I even get the chills right now just from the recollection of the experience. Really spooky stuff! In neither case had I had anything stronger than coffee or tee before the experience, and I've never been on medication or had addiction to alcohol or drugs.
 

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