Looks Like Indigenous People Own the Moon

[TragicMonkey]

It's not something I want, and I would have thought it was close to the "stupid" end of things for someone to do. But... I did recently hear someone from Celestis talk about how they communicate with families and with the launch operators. Assuming they're that straight with the families when they're doing the sale, I have no concerns.

If uncle Bob thought it was a cool idea for his ashes to ride on a rocket and aunt Sally has the funds and agreed, then I'm all for having a memorial service around the launch to talk about how much Bob thought space and rockets were cool.

Families are funny things. In my family it would go down like this: someone would tell Uncle Bob his ashes will go the moon, then after he died he'd end up in a normal cemetery. Or else someone would collect the money from Aunt Sally and tell her they paid the company to send Uncle Bob's ashes to the moon, then he'd end up in a normal dumpster. I guess sentimental feelings about the moon are common throughout many cultures, as are sentimental feelings about family. Just not mine, though.

 

[JoeMorgue]

This is been an elephant in the room for a long while when talking about indigenous cultures.

To put it bluntly, you can't make everything sacred. If your concept of sacred isn't limited to specific areas and encompasses a broad idea like "all of nature" or "all of the world" or "all of they sky" you can't reasonably expect the same level of accommodation.

And yes I'm sorry, and this is coming from someone who openly admits I have almost no patience of religious accommodations of any kind, on a simply practical level "This building is sacred because 500 years ago Saint Bumfart the 2nd saw a vision of the Virgin Mary so don't tear it down" is one thing and "Don't do anything ever because the entire concept of 'outside' is sacred to us so we see every tree and mountain as a God" is another.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Dead things can be sent to the moon, where all indications are, they will remain dead, or not?
I mean not sent to the moon, not if they'll remain dead or not, that's pretty much a given already.

TOYNBEE IDEA
IN MOViE '2001
RESURRECT DEAD
ON PLANET JUPiTER

 

[Olmstead]

I have to step in and point out, the moon is not a planet, its a moon. It's not named the moon, but we mostly call it that, I don't know why, because of tradition or something I'm sure someone far better informed than me will be along shortly to correct, but hey, isn't that what we love about this place?
All that said, I'm pretty sure it's name is, Luna, Luna the Moon, and it belongs to the Earth, as long as it remains in orbit.
So since it's the only one we have, I guess you could say, it belongs to ALL of us, and I say, we put it to a vote.
Dead things can be sent to the moon, where all indications are, they will remain dead, or not?
I mean not sent to the moon, not if they'll remain dead or not, that's pretty much a given already.

Luna is just the Latin word for moon though.

 

[TragicMonkey]

This is been an elephant in the room for a long while when talking about indigenous cultures.

To put it bluntly, you can't make everything sacred. If your concept of sacred isn't limited to specific areas and encompasses a broad idea like "all of nature" or "all of the world" or "all of they sky" you can't reasonably expect the same level of accommodation.

Reminds me of bad bosses I've had: if everything is top priority, then it's effectively the same as nothing being top priority. If everything is sacred then nothing is.

 

[ahhell]

I love this because both sides of this issue are clearly dumb. I wonder how they feel about naming a star after someone?

 

[zooterkin]

They left behind everything except what they needed to survive the trip home, and their payload. Human waste, outer suits, everything.

There are 12 nearly new Hasselblad cameras on the moon.

 

[Cat Not Included]

This is so brilliant! Forget those pricey lunar exploration robots, just dump some corpse ash on the moon, and poof, spirits roaming around doing our exploration! Wait, do Ouija boards have lunar ranger normally or do you need an extension antennae for them to get that?

I want to think this "moon is sacred" is a Satanic Temple type thing of illustrating the absurdity of religion based laws. I want to believe...

(Side note: I'm assuming that "sending remains to the moon" would consist of maybe a few flecks of ash per person. Assuming the company offering to send doesn't just think "hmmm, there's absolutely no way my client can EVERY verify that I've actually done this...")

 

[novaphile]

Reminds me of bad bosses I've had: if everything is top priority, then it's effectively the same as nothing being top priority. If everything is sacred then nothing is.

Feel free to use my comment that I used on that class of bosses...

"If everything is the same highest priority, I'll just do the stuff that I feel like doing."

 

[novaphile]

This is so brilliant! Forget those pricey lunar exploration robots, just dump some corpse ash on the moon, and poof, spirits roaming around doing our exploration! Wait, do Ouija boards have lunar ranger normally or do you need an extension antennae for them to get that?

I want to think this "moon is sacred" is a Satanic Temple type thing of illustrating the absurdity of religion based laws. I want to believe...

(Side note: I'm assuming that "sending remains to the moon" would consist of maybe a few flecks of ash per person. Assuming the company offering to send doesn't just think "hmmm, there's absolutely no way my client can EVERY verify that I've actually done this...")

Goes further back than that.

The box of cremated remains is a random selection of ashes from everything that went through that day. It could be someone's pet poodle for all the recipient knows.

 

[The Atheist]

What do they want NASA to do? Boycott launches and launch service providers that include these payloads?

That's exactly what they want.

I think the Earth is sacred, and I demand that you all leave at once!

Bloody good plan! You'll enjoy the silence.

This is been an elephant in the room for a long while when talking about indigenous cultures.

To put it bluntly, you can't make everything sacred.

Tell that to Maori.

The NZ Transport agency spent $300,000 putting a deviation into the country's main highway that costs an extra $1,000,000 a year in extra distance travelled because a taniwha lived in a pond they were going to cover over and pave.

I must edit Wikipedia, because it says they live in deep pools. The tiny pond the road was going to cover was approximately 15 cm deep.

(Side note: I'm assuming that "sending remains to the moon" would consist of maybe a few flecks of ash per person. Assuming the company offering to send doesn't just think "hmmm, there's absolutely no way my client can EVERY verify that I've actually done this...")

Good point!

 

[bruto]

They aren't claiming they own it, they are claiming it's sacred.

Well, if they're claiming it's too sacred to use, I'm not sure whether there's a material difference. The point is that it would seem there's something a bit more than usual in claiming control over an entire planet.

 

[lionking]

Tell that to Maori.

The NZ Transport agency spent $300,000 putting a deviation into the country's main highway that costs an extra $1,000,000 a year in extra distance travelled because a taniwha lived in a pond they were going to cover over and pave.

I must edit Wikipedia, because it says they live in deep pools. The tiny pond the road was going to cover was approximately 15 cm deep.

“Secret women’s business” initially stopped the Hindmarsh Island Bridge in South Australia before PM Howard set up an inquiry which found the whole thing a fabrication. The bridge was then built.

I hated Howard, but he did some good things, weapons bans being by far the best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindm... Royal Commission,was completed in March 2001.

 

[Lplus]

Meh, just another take on "tell white man it's sacred and they'll give us some money"

 

[dirtywick]

*Maybe* that's a valid complaint? Don't use the moon for mere commercial purposes? Don't make a business of selling funerary access to the moon to a small subset of religions, without taking into account and respecting the many, many religions on Earth that are not included in your rites and may not appreciate you using the moon for them?

i think it is a valid complaint. i know there's a religious angle to this which makes everyone want to reflexively think it's stupid, and it kind of is on that grounds. but on the other hand, because their reasoning is faulty and nobody owns the moon, there's a few steps i don't understand and aren't on board with where we get to the point that you can just fly human remains and other garbage up there and dump it where ever you want.

 

[Checkmite]

I have to step in and point out, the moon is not a planet, its a moon. It's not named the moon, but we mostly call it that, I don't know why, because of tradition or something I'm sure someone far better informed than me will be along shortly to correct, but hey, isn't that what we love about this place?
All that said, I'm pretty sure it's name is, Luna, Luna the Moon, and it belongs to the Earth, as long as it remains in orbit.

I believe you're wrong about that. The Moon is a moon, but its scientific name is capital-M Moon, similar to the way we have a sun that is scientifically named the Sun. Only sci-fi writers call it Luna, along with maybe a couple of science writers who tried but failed to make that a thing. The Latin word for the Moon was luna, and we use that for the modern word "lunar", but luna was not a proper name, as the Romans did not consider the Moon itself to be a place or a god - there was a Roman goddess of the Moon, but her name was Diana.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Since nobody owns the moon there's nobody to stop anyone from going there to remove things left by other people. They could try to say it's theft but who would have jurisdiction? Also I'm pretty sure abandoned property can't be considered objects of theft.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Yeah the Romans also thought all their Gods lived on a very easily climbable mountain that was like... over there a little and it never once seemed to occur to them to climb the mountain and check so ya know what not put a few Gods on the moon as well.

 

[dann]

When a "a technologically-advanced nation" uses its advanced technology to "send ashes of bereaved to the moon," I'm on the side of people who try to put a stop to the moronic enterprise. I would even consider advising them to come up with a better argument.

Edited by sarge: 

removed rule 12 violations

 

[JoeMorgue]

If they think the process is stupid they should argue it is stupid, not go "No you can't do that because the moon is sacred and your white guilt says you can't disagree."