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Logic vs emotion

IndigoRose

Scholar
Joined
Jun 20, 2004
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Under what circumstances is logic the correct tool to use to make a decision? When is emotion more correct to use to make a decision? Under what circumstances are "appeals to emotion" the correct argument?
IndigoRose
 
IndigoRose said:
Under what circumstances is logic the correct tool to use to make a decision?

always.

When is emotion more correct to use to make a decision?

never.

Under what circumstances are "appeals to emotion" the correct argument?

When logic dictates that doing so is in your interests. Politicians do it all the time --- mostly even.
 
IndigoRose said:
Under what circumstances is logic the correct tool to use to make a decision? When is emotion more correct to use to make a decision? Under what circumstances are "appeals to emotion" the correct argument?
IndigoRose

There is a quote attributed to Jonathan Swift : "you do no reason a man out of something he was not reasoned into." There's a good article in Skeptical Inquirer about the difficulty of using logic on people with regard to their (specifically) religious beliefs, but the difficulty generalizes. A lot of people I know object to gay marriage, for example, on the basis of an "ewwww"-style emotional response, against the gates of which the battering ram of reason can beat forever, without effect.

Logic is also a terrible tool for making decisions with when you either don't have enough information (and thus can't reach a decision), when some of your underlying assumptions are of questionable quality, or when you have too much information and can't sort through it all "logically." In cases like this, emotion, intuition, and reflexive judgement can be both more likely to reach a correct and timely judgement than "reason." None of the good poker players I know -- even the ones with Ph.D.'s in statistics -- use stats at the table. They just read the cards in my hands by staring into my soul. The hunch of an expert can be worth more than a thousand pages of close reasoning.

Logic, then, is only appropriate when you have the kind of information upon which it works, otherwise it's just a method of screwing up by the numbers. Emotion, of course, is also only appropriate when you have the kind of information -- usually, experience -- upon which it works. The trick is to know yourself well enough to judge between them.

I guess this means I disagree with Mr. Lister.
 
Re: Re: Logic vs emotion

drkitten said:
Logic, then, is only appropriate when you have the kind of information upon which it works, otherwise it's just a method of screwing up by the numbers. Emotion, of course, is also only appropriate when you have the kind of information -- usually, experience -- upon which it works. The trick is to know yourself well enough to judge between them.

I guess this means I disagree with Mr. Lister.

I'm not so sure you do. Logically, using the logical tool requires that tool is available for use. It isn't always available.

For example: you are enjoying a nice frosty imported brew at your local pub. A drunk walks up and out of the blue takes a swing at you. Do you act instinctively or logically?

Turned out that the drunk was really trying to punch the guy behind you that was about to do you in with a broken beer bottle (you have many unseen fans and enemies, I see).

The drunk could have told you to duck but he logically concluded that verbal communication would have only enlisted a logical response --- you'd have asked, "why?"
 
Re: Re: Logic vs emotion

drkitten said:
A lot of people I know object to gay marriage, for example, on the basis of an "ewwww"-style emotional response, against the gates of which the battering ram of reason can beat forever, without effect.
Not always the case. I had the "ewww" reaction for the longest time, then thought about it, and couldn't come up with any compelling reason to be against gay marriage. I see a host of legal issues that would have to be resolved (can't see it working without a nationwide standard), and it won't happen until the general public gets past its collective "ewww", but I don't see how it makes a difference to me if the two guys next door become legally obligated to each other.

So, yeah, it IS possible for reason to get past the emotions. But you have to be someone who tends to give substantially heavier weight to reason in the first place, I think, because emotions tend to short-circuit the reasoning process.

Edited to add: Spinoza wrote that only an emotion can overcome another emotion. Therefore, reason must itself become an emotion -- a powerful one -- in order that it may outweigh others. He calls this powerful emotion “the intellectual love of God,” which (since Spinoza conceived of God as being the underlying "substance" of the universe, entailing everything that exists and the laws that control it) means love of nature as well and the acceptance of or natural law. Knowledge/understanding of God/Nature is the ultimate virtue.
 
Interesting question of when to use logic and when to use emotion!

Both are appropriate, but it all depends on the situation I believe.

If a kid falls down and skins their knee, I'm not going to use logic and, knowing that it is a very minor scratch, just say it is nothing. I'm going to un-logically acknowledge the kid like the scratch is the biggest thing in the universe.
 
I've said this one time before on this message board, but I'll say it again. Every logical decision must be born of an emotional urge to be logical. Nietzsche seemed to have picked up on this when in "The Birth of Tragedy," he describes the Dyonisian foundation of the Apollinian.
 
Batman Jr. said:
I've said this one time before on this message board, but I'll say it again. Every logical decision must be born of an emotional urge to be logical.
Why? And why isn't the reverse true - that every emotional decision must be born of a logical urge to be emotional?
 
BPSCG said:
Why? And why isn't the reverse true - that every emotional decision must be born of a logical urge to be emotional?

Oh, I like that one! I think maybe it is. I can logically decide that an emotional response is appropriate, and emotionally decide that a logical response is appropriate. The decisions are usually good. I would hate have a love interest try to use logic to convince me to have a sexual relationship--that would kill it right there. On the other hand, there are aspects of it that need to be dealt with dispassionately ..."I don't care what I am feeling...if you are married, then the relationship will be friends only."
IndigoRose
 
Re: Re: Logic vs emotion

Rob Lister said:


always .... never.

.

Are all of your decisions based on logic, or are some of them based on emotion? Chocolate vs vanilla? cat vs dog? the blonde or the brunette?
IndigoRose
 
T'ai Chi said:
If a kid falls down and skins their knee, I'm not going to use logic and, knowing that it is a very minor scratch, just say it is nothing. I'm going to un-logically acknowledge the kid like the scratch is the biggest thing in the universe.

Well, yes, but you'll also teach them where to find the neosporin and the bandaids, yes?
 
Re: Re: Re: Logic vs emotion

IndigoRose said:


Are all of your decisions based on logic, or are some of them based on emotion? Chocolate vs vanilla? cat vs dog? the blonde or the brunette?
IndigoRose

Not all of my decisions are based on logic. That wasn't what you asked. Logic is always the correct tool. Even when deciding on chocolate v vanilla.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Logic vs emotion

Rob Lister said:


Not all of my decisions are based on logic. That wasn't what you asked. Logic is always the correct tool. Even when deciding on chocolate v vanilla.

Logic determines personal preference?
 
T'ai Chi said:
Interesting question of when to use logic and when to use emotion!

Both are appropriate, but it all depends on the situation I believe.

If a kid falls down and skins their knee, I'm not going to use logic and, knowing that it is a very minor scratch, just say it is nothing. I'm going to un-logically acknowledge the kid like the scratch is the biggest thing in the universe.

Actually, the logical thing to do is to direct his attention elsewhere. In other words, distract the kid with a toy or interesting idea. Even "Mommy will kiss it and make it all better." is an appropriate distraction technique. er.. or "daddy". A person can only pay attention to so many things at once; distracting someone in pain often leads to less pain experienced. But if allowed to focus on the area that is painful, it will only get moreso.

Emotions are proprioceptive (body feelings). But then if you think about how it feels to be logical, you realize that logic also changes proprioception, and could be classified as an emotion - if someone really wanted to.

But do notice that the feeling that you're being logical is not the same thing as actually being er.. correctly logical, Veridically Logical.
 
BPSCG said:
Why? And why isn't the reverse true - that every emotional decision must be born of a logical urge to be emotional?
I've never heard of a "logical urge." Isn't that kind of an oxymoron? Compulsion by definition is emotional. Logic systemizes facts. The decision to use logic in your endeavors is a compulsion and therefore emotionally based. People use reason in an effort to get to the truth, though it must be asked why people want to get to the truth. The answer is simple: because of the natural affection the human mind has for that truth. Emotion is simply inseparable from any kind of decision we make.

A decision can be broken up into two parts: the desired consequence and the way to that consequence. The consequence desired is always contingent upon emotion; it is the path to realizing that consequence where either logic is applied or thrown by the wayside.
 
Batman Jr. said:

I've never heard of a "logical urge." Isn't that kind of an oxymoron? Compulsion by definition is emotional. Logic systemizes facts. The decision to use logic in your endeavors is a compulsion and therefore emotionally based. People use reason in an effort to get to the truth, though it must be asked why people want to get to the truth. The answer is simple: because of the natural affection the human mind has for that truth. Emotion is simply inseparable from any kind of decision we make.

No, it is not an oxymoron. I have come across a lot of brain damaged children who can apply deductive logic without error yet are unable to understand emotion, facial expression, humor, inuendo, etc. They have an "urge" to try to apply logic to situations where it is not appropriate. For instance, thinking that walking up to an unknown woman and proposing sex will succeed if he list the logical reasons why she should have sex with him. As most women do not like being treated like prostitutes, it does not work well.

I also disagree that logic is always used to get to the truth. All that is necessary is to use an invalid premise and logic will lead you to whatever conclusion you desire, and as far away from the truth as you wish to get.
IndigoRose
 
Originally posted by IndigoRose
No, it is not an oxymoron. I have come across a lot of brain damaged children who can apply deductive logic without error yet are unable to understand emotion, facial expression, humor, inuendo, etc. They have an "urge" to try to apply logic to situations where it is not appropriate. For instance, thinking that walking up to an unknown woman and proposing sex will succeed if he list the logical reasons why she should have sex with him. As most women do not like being treated like prostitutes, it does not work well.
My arguments have nothing to do with understanding others' emotions, but instead only to do with experiencing emotion for oneself. An "urge" to apply logic is still fundamentally emotional even in the case you describe.
Originally posted by IndigoRose
I also disagree that logic is always used to get to the truth. All that is necessary is to use an invalid premise and logic will lead you to whatever conclusion you desire, and as far away from the truth as you wish to get.
I said "in an effort to get to the truth." I never made the claim that logic "always" gives you the truth. Whether or not you get to the truth using logic, your attempt to get the truth is based upon a desire to obtain that truth for yourself.
 
Batman Jr. said:


I said "in an effort to get to the truth."

ok, then I will be more specific. Not everyone who uses deductive logic is making an effort to get to the truth. Sometimes they are deliberately using false premises along with logic to "prove" their own version of what they want to be true.
IndigoRose
 

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