Lightning strikes

[Chris O.]

Of course I read the OP, or I wouldn't have commented. But If you need me to do a point by point response to the post, I can do that as well.

Now, I can stay indoors at least some of the times, but this is not always convenient (i.e. sometimes I need to go home or go to buy some food). The show usually stops within a couple (1-4) of hours, but if I am going to get some sleep, I need to get some food and I need to go home, otherwise I will not be functioning the next day.

Get in the car and go. Very little to fear here.

My problem is: just how dangerous is it to walk the rivers/streets during this stuff? Do I really need to consider the possibility to get fried?

Probably should stay off the rivers, especially if you're moving under trees.

I remember seeing on TV some recording from a soccer match in some African country where a lightning struck the corner flag. Several players half a field's width away just collapsed. Obviously they did not get struck (the strike got caught on film, and it was only one, in the corner), but the strike levelled them nonetheless.

This, to me, signifies that the energy from the strike travelled in the (possibly wet) grass and still had the strength to take down several people some 20-30 meters away.

You're probably right about the grass conducting the charge to all the players. My dad was in a creek, didn't even see where the lightning hit, and all the guys with him felt it.

Now, I do not think it is very likely that I, personally, will get struck wading around in the city. Most likely any strike will go for some house, phone-pole or other high-pointing structure. But. If a strike 30 meters away is potentially lethal (the African one seemed rather small, and no thunder was recorded), just how dangerous is this stuff?

Is it likely that I'll get fried, or are the infections and diseases I'll catch from the dirty water in the streets a bigger threat?

Again it all depends on the city-scape, but I'd put my money on the sickness. The point is, do not let it cause you to cease all normal function, nor should you be out tempting fate. It's not something to fear, but something to respect.

 

[Mosquito]

Hi, and thanks for replies

I'll elaborate a little further on the conditions.

I am not talking about New York (or similar). There are no skyscrapers and more or less no really tall buildings for the route I walk. As for how developed the city is, well, most buildings are one or two stories tall. I imagine that lightning rods are a rarety, but I do not know. A lot of houses have cables coming from above and connected to a bolt in the ground, this may be a rod. (?) Or just the normal "grounding" of the house. The electric and phone cables are open-air on poles (concrete), not buried. I suppose there is a real possibility that one of these will be hit and fry anything connected. When I get rich I'll disconnect my house and produce my own electricity, problem solved

When I say "river" that is a pretty good description of the streets during any serious rainfall (= any rainfall). There will be anything from 5-25 cm of water in the streets, sidewalks are wet, and my rubber soles are substantially thinner than the water level. In effect, I'm pretty well grounded. Since there is a very real possibility that I will have to wade to get across a street at some point, most likely I'll be wet to mid-ancle before I'm home.

Basically, walking/running through the streets you will get wet. Umbrella/rain-gear may help keep part of you dry, but your feet will get wet.

Ah, yes, there are trees. On the sidewalks and as decoration between the lanes of traffic. The trees are more or less the same height as the buildings, and it is difficult to avoid walking under them at some points. Staying 30+meters away from them requires walking through some neighbourhoods I'm not all that comfortable with, not that any baddies will want to get wet, but there may be a "lake" or two there as well, since water collects fast in the lower parts of the streets.

About cars, well, I know they are safe(r) to use due to the faraday cage thingy, but I do not own one. And I am not so sure it would be safer to use one, the level of driving expertise displayed by the people in the city, considered. No respect for anything smaller than a tank, I'm afraid. Not that I've seen any tanks around, but I have seen a lot of idiotic driving. Accidents happen a lot between my house and the office.

Since I spend most of the walking time close to houses/trees, I do not fear getting a direct hit, but the indirect effect scares me.

Most of the time I count "seconds" between flash and thunder, only rarely do I register sub-second proximity, but I get some serious cardio-action when I do. This is scary stuff.


I guess the smart thing to do is wait it out. This will likely cause me to be a couple-four hours later home some days. And possibly starved out of my mind, but at least my mind will be there to be starved.


Mosquito - Now what to do should the storm last for a day or two... (hopefully I'll be home with the fridge full of food before I discover that...)

 

[Mosquito]

[BI looked at www.medlineplus.gov and got this website, which was one of many: http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_detaillb.cfm?article_ID=ZZZCDDAUP5D&sub_cat=104[/B]

From the advice of the medem-site (lot's of advice there):

Use the flash-to-bang count to determine when to go to safety. By the time the flash-to-bang count approaches 30 seconds all individuals should be already inside a safe structure.

Hmm, never been able to count flash-to-bang at more than some 10-15 seconds ever... Mostly because at those distances the sound is washed out or something. Maybe it is mistaken for another flash.

This is difficult when the mean time between flashes is substantially less than 30 seconds.

Normally I have the "gut-feeling" that 5 seconds and above is Ok (~1.5km), but I may be wrong on this. Typically my counts reaches 5-10 seconds, and I feel "safe" but with <5 seconds, I start the cardio-activity. But sometimes there is no thunder even for flashes that are really close...

Of course, when the flashes are at <5 seconds apart, counting gets academical.


Mosquito

 

[Mosquito]

There is also a small risk of being injuried while using a (land-line) telephone during thunderstorms. About one person per year is killed in this manner.

This, I can happily(?) say is not a problem for me, as I do not have such a phone.

The rate 1/year is for global or local area?

However, when I get rich and obtain such a phone, I'll have to look into making a physical barrier for any electric surge. Some sort of wireless between equipment in the house and the physical lines outside should do the trick.

This is not just for the risk of lightning (though that is probably a real equipment killer here) but any type of electric accident/messup by the local incompetents.


Mosquito

 

[Checkmite]

I'd like to know in what geographical anomaly Mosquito lives. I'm well aware that non-stormy rain can last for days at a time, and that there may sometimes be occasional embedded thunderstorms within these rain shields. I'm also aware that sometimes an area may be struck by a series of storms. However, having experienced storms in several different locales, I can honestly say I've never seen a thunderstorm which lasts longer than around 45 minutes at the most. Certainly no single thunderstorm approaching four hours.

My personal recommendation is that if you don't have a car, check the forecast and weather radar - and if there's storms coming, don't go out in the first place. If for some reason you don't have enough food in your home for that time period, rest assured that you can survive without food for longer than four hours.

 

[Mosquito]

It's exactly this kind of "it won't hit me" attitude that gets people killed or seriously injured.

A person outdoors unprotected by a structure during the kind of storm Mosquito describes is at a serious, life threatening risk of being hit.

Remember folks, we're talking about huge amounts of electricity and heat. A strike need only hit a tree within dozens of meters of a walking person to cripple or kill.

Treat lightning with the respect it deserves. If you start to hear a thunderstorm getting closer (count the time between flash and boom), then it's time to head indoors.

Which, I guess, is why I asked. I do not know a lot about lightning (maybe more than the average guy, but that doesn't mean diddley, I have found), and I do not know how to evaluate the real risk. It is easy to make a "100 golfers are fried by lightning every year in the USA, I'm not a golfer in the USA, thus I'm safe"-kinda calculation, but it leaves a certain something to be desired, doesn't it.

One good thing is that you can see some time in advance that there will be some serious weather. The sky changes color, and the huge near-black clouds with lights give a few hints.

About heat, I think an average(?) lightning get up to about 30kK, that is some 5-6 times warmer than the surface of the sun. Seems relevant to me.

Hopefully the stormy season is getting done soon, then the season with the really dangerous weather comes along. Missed it last year, hopefully I'll miss it again this year.

I've heard that a few people are fried every year in this city, but I do not have anything more reliable than heresay(sp?), anecdotals that are not even of the "I know this guy who..." level of quality.


Mosquito - I like extreme weather, but I like living too...

 

[Mosquito]

I'd like to know in what geographical anomaly Mosquito lives. I'm well aware that non-stormy rain can last for days at a time, and that there may sometimes be occasional embedded thunderstorms within these rain shields. I'm also aware that sometimes an area may be struck by a series of storms. However, having experienced storms in several different locales, I can honestly say I've never seen a thunderstorm which lasts longer than around 45 minutes at the most. Certainly no single thunderstorm approaching four hours.

My personal recommendation is that if you don't have a car, check the forecast and weather radar - and if there's storms coming, don't go out in the first place. If for some reason you don't have enough food in your home for that time period, rest assured that you can survive without food for longer than four hours.

It may of course be my mind playing a trick on me, but I think we're seeing up to 3-4 hours of thunderstorm in this city. Mostly they don't last so long, especially if they are really intense, but I had never experienced anything similar to the stuff we have here before I moved here.

There is "always" a "storm" coming this way. It's a seasonal thing (and thus most of the year we see sunshine with hardly a cloud). Though most of them are small compared to what we had a little time ago, the amount of water is still heavy (even for a one hour shower), and there is usually some lightning associated.

To top it off, it tends to start about at the time I need to go home (6-8PM), and stop late at night.

I haven't been here with heavy weather lasting for more than some hours, but I await with mixed emotions the "one week massive rainfall & hard winds" the locals talk about. Supposedly there will be substantial amounts of water everywhere (~1m in the streets) when that happens next time.


Mosquito - trying to be reasonably exact, but may be suspect to "wishful thinking". I'll try to time the next ones, and see if it really is as much of a problem as I think. I might learn a thing or two from that

 

[Chris Haynes]

I'd like to know in what geographical anomaly Mosquito lives. I'm well aware that non-stormy rain can last for days at a time, and that there may sometimes be occasional embedded thunderstorms within these rain shields. ....

I'm guessing someplace with a rainy season. The causeway where I hid out on a porch during a lightning storm was in Panama. Not only were there daily rain storms with lightning (though they only lasted for minutes, never for hours), but I got to see an occasional water spout near the canal anchorage.

edited for an extra word

 

[Chris O.]

I'd like to know in what geographical anomaly Mosquito lives... I can honestly say I've never seen a thunderstorm which lasts longer than around 45 minutes at the most. Certainly no single thunderstorm approaching four hours.

Do come to Kansas sometime. Yestarday a thunderstorm, or several consecutive thunderstorms surrounded the Kansas City area all day. For a period of at least 12 hours everyone with in the city was able see lightning, and hear thunder. And was therefore within strking distance. While I don't know where one storm ends, and another begins, the "storm system," as the weather reporters refer to them, lasted all day, and there was never an hour when there wasn't a thunderstorm in the area.

 

[Ladewig]

Why not keep 2 or 3 days worth of food at your home so that you do not have to do out in that kind of weather? Such a precaution is wise given that someday there may be a natural disaster or lengthy life-threatening weather.

 

[Chris Haynes]

Do come to Kansas sometime. Yestarday a thunderstorm, or several consecutive thunderstorms surrounded the Kansas City area all day. ....

Oh, wow... I forgot about those! It was in a suburb of KC that a tree was blown apart by lightning across the street from where I was having a sleepover with friends. The whole room lit up... even though it was on the side of the house facing away from the street! And it was LOUD!

 

[Mosquito]

Why not keep 2 or 3 days worth of food at your home so that you do not have to do out in that kind of weather? Such a precaution is wise given that someday there may be a natural disaster or lengthy life-threatening weather.

Inability to save?

It's a good advice, I'm not used to this kind of thinking, but I have thought the thought. From there it is a question of actually doing it. Which seems to be a general problem for most people. (Don't take security measures until it is arguably too late.)

Same goes for water, of course. It's a good idea to have some extra water around, for when it is difficult to get new.

Last year, before the onset of what luckily turned out to be the rather peaceful season of Really Bad Weather^TM, I tried to get the idea of storing a little water for the case of being closed up for a week across. No response... Seems like it is a non-issue for the locals.

This year I'll prepare, with or without local understanding.


Mosquito - when in Rome, do as the Romans

 

[Chris O.]

To quote a comedian:
"In order to prepare for a hurricane, they tell us to fill our bathtubs with water, so we'll have clean water to drink. Clearly, they've never seen my bathtub..."

I've also seen a tree blown apart across the street from my house, quite a show, and lots o' noise.