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Light Therapy

Use of infra red for to ease muscle pains is well known I have used an infra red lamp myself for sore leg muscles and works wonders on a sore back.

As the article you posted said, it does penetrate deeper, despite its lower energy, and essentially warms the area.

And we can make our own Vitimin D with light.

Must admit when I looked at this post I thought it was going to be how looking at a fancy computer generated light can help you reach nirvana or some such, but the UV therapy, use some sunblock.
 
It's another quack device using some evidence from valid studies in a distorted way.

The light any of these devices produce is not going to contain any wavelengths that aren't present in sunlight or even an ordinary bulb flashlight available for a dollar, yet they sell for hundreds of dollars.
 
Yep, i too must admit that it sounds like another visit to woo-woo land. While there is no doubt that a lamp like that perhaps can generate some heat i fail to see how you couldn't achieve the same effect using a hot bath f.inst.

All their talk about the light "stimulating" cells and increasing blood flow is IMHO rubbish. Most of the devices i have seen has had some kind of vibrator in them thus delivering a gentle massage at the same time and THAT helps on aching muscles. And it is true that our body produces vitamins when exposed to sunlight but i can think of much better ways to get that effect than rubbing my body with a bunch of IR diodes in a handle (there are one or two in every remote control BTW and they can be powered by a 1.5v battery, so why not make your own?).


This :
LED devices usually have a 50% duty cycle. That is, the LED pulse is "on" for 0.5 seconds and "off" for 0.5 seconds versus the 200/1,000,000,000 (200 billionths) of a second burst from laser at 1 cycle per second (1 herz). Moreover, LED is "on" 50% of the time and "off" 50% of the time regardless of what frequency setting (pulses per second) is used. On the contrary, the laser is "on" for 0.000000000005 of a second and "off" for 0.999999999995 of the second. In short, the LED diodes emit more than 33% more energy than a comparable laser diode because of the substantially longer duty cycle, even though the peak output is less.
Click to expand...

is plain b*******
 
One in particular is the "medlite". It used to say "FDA approved" on its website, now it's only FDA compliant. One of the inventors is a believer in accupuncture. They refer to Nasa studies done on PLANTS and childrens mouth sores using many LEDs, but they use 4.

They used to have an audio of a local radio station interviewing them. The interview ended very shortly after they were asked about the difference between the LEDS and a flashlight, claiming it was a "different" wavelength. Their patent claims a range of 660-1500nm... they haven't decided what wavelength they should claim as the right one yet, but they have decided that flashing pairs of LEDS prevents the body from "adapting" to the light.

One of the inventors' earlier patents involves a similar device with 1 led and an impedence detector used to locate accupuncture points.
 
Thanks for the info and opinions. I was fairly convinced that it was hooey, but thought I may have missed something important. Apparently not.;)
 
You're welcome. I think most people tend to confuse IR radiation with heat. AND it is true that the hotter a subject are the more IR it emits BUT that is not heat that is light in the invisible range. IR light is not hotter than ordinary white light and it doesn't penetrate anything.

As i have stated before i sometimes work professionally with an infrared camera (we use it for measuring temperatures on PC boards without touching them) and everytime i see a hollywod movie where they use IR camera's to "see through" walls i frown. It has unfortunately created the misconception that IR camera's are the modern equivalent of Supermans x-ray vision.

It is simply not true. IR light doesn't penetrate anything. It can even be stopped by glass. If you used an IR camera you wouldn't be able to look through a closed window.
 
chum

At this link you'll find a great article about the guy that started this nonsense. Here's my favorite quote from the above:

After the passage of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act of 1938, which gave the FDA some teeth in regulating therapeutic devices, the government again began to assemble evidence against Dinshah. Finally, in 1945, he was charged with introducing a misbranded article into interstate commerce, a violation of the criminal code. Once again, he trotted out his satisfied patients, but this time there were no supporting physicians. His fate was virtually sealed when a star witness, whom Dinshah had "cured" of seizures, had one on the witness stand. The prosecution called a witness whom Dinshah had repeatedly profiled in his advertising as having been cured of paralysis; she could not take a single step when the master urged her. Another witness described how he had contacted Dinshah after his diabetic father had lapsed into a coma and was simply told to shine a yellow light on him. He did -- until his father died. And, finally, the Court heard how the celebrated burn victim described as the recipient of a miracle cure by Dr. Baldwin in the previous trial had, in fact, succumbed to her injuries.
Click to expand...
 
Mmmm, for a bit of vivisection on that text, heheh:

Light therapy has been shown in over 40 years of independent research worldwide to deliver powerful therapeutic benefits to living tissues and organisms.
Uhh, yes. Actually we have known for even longer that sunlight is good for you.

Both visible red and infrared light have been shown to effect at least 24 different positive changes at a cellular level.*Snip*

This may be correct, but this is not proof that light therapy is any miracle cure, it just tells us that we would not fare well in constant darkness.

The diverse tissue and cell types in the body all have their own unique light absorption characteristics; that is, they will only absorb light at specific wavelengths and not at others.

This is wrong. Because colors of various tissures are somewhat different, the absorbsion spectrums vary accordingly, but there is no specific "tuning" to certain tissues as the text implies.

*Snip*

Depth of penetration is defined as the depth at which 60% of the light is absorbed by the tissue, while 40% of the light will continue to be absorbed in a manner that is less fully understood.

Nonsense. Light is partly absorbed, partly reflected by the tissue. The absorbed light is turned into heat, the rest is returned to the surroundings. The process is fully understood and accounted for. Some of the absorbed light takes part in chemical reactions in the body.

Treating points with Light can have a dramatic effect on remote and internal areas of the body through the stimulation of nerves, acupuncture and trigger points that perform a function not unlike transmission cables.

This is not documented at all. Only documented effect of accupuncture is a certain analgesic effect, due to the release of endorphins.

At this time, research has shown no side effects from this form of therapy.

No side effects of light therapy, except from burns and the carcinogenic effect of sunlight, that is....

Light therapy has also been given the name " phototherapy". A study done by the Mayo Clinic in 1989 suggests that the results of light therapy are a direct effect of light itself, *Snip*

A long yarn to tell us that any effect is due to the light itself, not to which source that generated it. This is hardly surprising, but does leave open the question why we can't use a simple table lamp.....

The Following Definitions are Terms used in connection with Therapeutic Light devices: *Snip*

Then follows a list of definitions, which are reasonably correct, but really only serve to make the article look technical.


Information About Lasers

Lasers are of two principal types, "hot" and "cold", and they are distinguished by the amount of peak power they deliver. "Hot" lasers deliver power up to thousands of watts. *Snip*

Long yarn about lasers. The distinction between hot and cold lasers is arbitrary, many other characterisitcs distinguish the various types of lasers. It will, however, serve to distinguish between lasers used for surgery and for other types of therapy. All high power lasers are pulsed, whereas not all low power types are.

What is the Difference between LED's and LASERS?

Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs) are another form of light therapy that is a relatively recent development of the laser industry.

Nope. Lasers and LEDs have developed independently, but a fairly late development of LEDs is semiconductor lasers. Those are generally too low powered for therapeutical purposes.

LEDs are similar to lasers inasmuch as they have the same healing effects but differ in the way that the light energy is delivered. A significant difference between lasers and LEDs is the power output. The peak power output of LEDs is measured in milliwatts, while that of lasers is measured in watts. However, this difference when considered alone is misleading, since the most critical factor that determines the amount of energy delivered is the duty cycle of the device.

This is not correct. Processes in living tissue are slow, and except for very high energies, it is the RMS (that is effective) value of the radiation that is important. Thus different dutycycles are of minor importance.

LED devices usually have a 50% duty cycle.

No, they are usually not pulsed at all.

In the majority of lasers on the market, the energy output varies with the frequency setting: the lower the frequency, the lower the output. *Snip*

For technological reasons, the pulse energy of a given laser cannot be varied over any considerable range, so the output is indeed varied by changing the frequency of these, more or less constant, pulses.

LEDs do not deliver enough power to damage the tissue, but they do deliver enough energy to stimulate a response from the body to heal itself.

The first statement is true, the second is undocumented.

With a low peak power output but high duty cycle, the LEDs provide a much gentler delivery of the same healing wavelengths of light as does the laser but at a substantially greater energy output. For this reason, LEDs do not have the same risk of accidental eye damage that lasers do.

Not correct. The reason lasers carry a risk of eye damage, even at low outputs, is because the coherent light-beam is focused on a very small spot on the retina, thus concentrating all power there, and at the same time bypassing the various protective responses of the eye. LEDs affect the eye in the same way as other light-sources.

Moreover, LEDs are neither coherent nor collimated and they generate a broader band of wavelengths than does the single-wavelength laser.

But not much broader; LEDs are still basically monocromatic.

Non-collimation and the wide-angle diffusion of the LED confers upon it a greater ease of application, since light emissions are thereby able to penetrate a broader surface area.

But the advantage of laser therapy IS exactly the possibility to direct the beam very precisely.

Moreover, the multiplicity of wavelengths in the LED, contrary to the single-wavelength laser, may enable it to affect a broader range of tissue types and produce a wider range of photochemical reactions in the tissue.

There is not a multiplicy of wavelengths from a LED. It is monocromatic, although the spectrum is marginally wider than that of a laser.

If LED disperses over a greater surface area, this results in a faster treatment time for a given area than laser.

How exactly does that follow?

The primary reason that BioScan chose the LEDs over lasers is that LEDs are safer, more cost effective, *snip*

Yeah, there is the core of the matter: LEDs are dead cheap, in the order of ten for a dollar if you buy volume.

What does Light Therapy actually do?

Light Therapy Can:

Then follows a long list of very bold claims of fantastic efficiacy in a number of different fields. I suggest some US citizen file a complaint with the FDA, so that the company can be required to prove its wild claims.

*Snip*
Click to expand...

Hans :rolleyes:
 
Well... you have done SOME research, but actually not enough... The LED lights NASA uses for plant growth on the space station are 470nm blue light with twice as many 670nm red light. According to Kendric Smith and Tina Karu... reknowned laser researchers... "too much emphasis is put on the source emitting the light than on the actual light itself." In other words, a photon is a photon. The foremost researcher in LED is Dr. Harry T. Whelan at the Medical College of Wisconsin. His research has been done solely with Quantum Devices, Inc. LEDs. These LEDs are at 670nm +/- 10nm (not 50). They were developed for the Department of Defense and NASA due to the problems astronauts have healing wounds in space and submarine crewmen healing while submerged. Dr. Whelan headed up the research at the War College and received approval for an actual combat clinical trial. These units were invented by Quantum Devices and are with some troops in Iraq.

The infomercials and anti aging issues come from companies trying to piggy back QDI's research and clinical studies without completing any of their own. It is not the lack of UV that assists the skin. It is the Near-IR penetrating the hemoglobin at a mitochondrial level and stimulating 'NATURAL' collagen production. So NO I doubt the infomercials' units produce the proper frequency, irradiancy or joules to produce positive results at all. NASA has stated 4joules at 50 mW/cm2 at 670nm (Near-Infrared) to be the optimum wellness factor. Most companies claim the power going to into their unit as their power output. To be effective in therapeutic ways... the radiant output is what matters. And most companies don't even know how to measure it.

The Quantum WARP 10 has an engine that drives its LEDs (surface mounted chips - not light bulbs from Radio Shack) 4.3 times harder than any on the market... allowing for penetrability in the 23 cm range. Hmmm, sounds like you don't need a laser for this doesn't it? LEDs provide penetrability, proven results with NO KNOWN CONTRAINDICATIONS... for fractions of the cost of lasers. If you're not performing surgery.... why would you need one?
 
The original message in this thread was about Light Therapy and horses. The following messages are from an alpaca husbandry site, and go into a lot more detail about the claims being made for "photonic light".

Note: "BVD" is Bovine Diarrhea Virus, a disease that has just been discovered to have spread from cattle to alpacas.
"PI" is "persistently infected" (carriers of the disease that cannot be cured). An animal is infected in utero at a stage of fetal development before there is an immune system, and so the immune system develops with the BVD virus already in place. Thus the immune system does not recognize the BVD virus as "foreign" and does not attack it.
A "cria" is a baby alpaca.

=======================================

McLaren Photonic Therapy is an effective, safe, painless, scientifically advance form of acupuncture, utilizing red light, not laser, to gently stimulate the body's own capacity to reduce pain, increase the immune response and promote healing.

Dr. Brian McLaren developed The McLaren Method of Photonic Therapy in the 1990's. Dr. McLaren is a retired large animal veterinarian from Australia as well as a clinical scientist. He is the highest qualified acupuncturist in Australia with qualifications in both veterinary and human acupuncture. Dr. Mclaren also developed and implemented the quarentine system used at the borders of Australia.

I have worked extensively with Dr. McLaren for the past 3 years and I demonstrate this method on animals daily(horses, alpacas). I am very knowledgable in The McLaren Method of Photonic Therapy. I am certified Level 2, which means Dr. McLaren has tested me on my advanced knowlegde. I have also been in contact with Dr. McLaren in regards to Alpacas and BVD.

Roni Spresser
Photonic Solutions

=======================================

Subject: Re: Photonic Therapy(red light) and BVD
Date: Sun Jan 29, 2006
From: Sara Willow <zwillow4@...>

Ellen wrote:

> roni, if the PI crias own immune system doesn't recognize the
> BVD viral material as "foreign" how would the light therapy
> stimulate the crias immune system to mount a defense??? That
> seems totally illogical to me.

Hi Ellen & all, I'm not Roni, & thought to offer what I understand about this. Which is that repeated use of the light therapy will kill the virus in the animal, & then the immune system will strengthen enough, & recalibrate itself, so that if the animal is exposed again to BVD, it will have become healthfull enough to read it as foreign & be able to fight it off. I could be wrong about this, but this is my understanding....

Lightwaves -- some of the healing techniques of the future, being offered in the now! I hope that ones who find PI in their herds will consider to offer Roni & Dr. McLaren's methods a chance, rather than seeing euthanization as the only option.

Sara of AlpacaMagic / Lorane, Or.

=======================================

Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Photonic Therapy(red light) and BVD
Date: Mon Jan 30, 2006
From: photonicsolutions <roni@redlighttherapy.net>

HI Everyone,

Sorry it has taken a day for me to respond, one of my kids was running a fever yesterday and I spent the day treating her. I do not give my kids medicine for fever unless it exceeds 103 degrees, I can bring down a fever with the light therefore giving the body a chance to fight the infection and build the immune system. Since I stopped using medication to bring fever down and just use the light, my kids are rarely sick anymore and I have 2 that used to get sick all the time. This is an good example of the immune system changing over time.

I know this has been one of the biggest questions.

Sara, you do have a pretty good understanding,thank you.

When we treat the PI cria we not only kill the virus in the body, but we also boost the immune system. The immune system will change over time as it does for all living creatures (humans, animals and otherwise) as this happens the former PI cria will recognise the virus as foreign and will not become PI again, this being said, all alpacas are suseptible to this virus if exposed, even if they have contracted the virus previously. If the animals immune system is healthy the likelyhood is less but if the immune system is compromised the likelyhood is greater. The good news is, BVD can be treated with Photonic Therapy.

Roni

=======================================

Subject: Re: Photonic Therapy(red light) and BVD
Date: Mon Jan 30, 2006
From: "photonicsolutions" <roni@...>

Amy wrote:

> In reading your post, are you saying this treatment will
> eliminate the BVDV virus or provide pain relief to those
> animals that have it?

Hi Amy,

The light will kill the virus in the body. Therefore I am confident the spread of this virus can be stopped. There are of course other precautions that must be taken ( biosecurity, quarentine). By using photonic therapy the quarentine time can be shortened as well.

I hope you will be able to attend one of my seminars at TXOLAN [Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana and New Mexico Alpaca Breeders Alpaca Spectacular]. I will be profiding much more information. Dr. McLaren is assisting me in the preparing the materials.

Roni
 
rob1ns said:
It is the Near-IR penetrating the hemoglobin at a mitochondrial level and stimulating 'NATURAL' collagen production
Click to expand...

What does that mean, exactly? I'm no biologist, but there's no hemoglobin in mitochondria, and no mitochondria in erythrocytes, and neither are involved in collagen production.

Some digging into the matter, and I found this. http://www.thorlaser.com/wound/how-does-it-work.htm. Sounds reasonable enough to me, but again, I'm not a biochemist.

rob1ns said:
The Quantum WARP 10 has an engine that drives its LEDs (surface mounted chips - not light bulbs from Radio Shack) 4.3 times harder than any on the market... allowing for penetrability in the 23 cm range. Hmmm, sounds like you don't need a laser for this doesn't it? LEDs provide penetrability, proven results with NO KNOWN CONTRAINDICATIONS... for fractions of the cost of lasers. If you're not performing surgery.... why would you need one?
Click to expand...

This raises a lot of questions. How is greater power being delivered? Since LEDs are so cheap, why should I care? How does more power increase the penetration, which should be just a function of the wavelength of the radiation? What am I hoping to hit 23cm inside me, when I'm pretty sure no part of me is that far from the outside? Why can't I find any of those claims on the Quantum Devices web page about the WARP 10?
 
Last edited:
MRC_Hans quoted from another site:

"Depth of penetration is defined as the depth at which 60% of the light is absorbed by the tissue, while 40% of the light will continue to be absorbed in a manner that is less fully understood."

and replied:

"Nonsense. Light is partly absorbed, partly reflected by the tissue. The absorbed light is turned into heat, the rest is returned to the surroundings. The process is fully understood and accounted for. Some of the absorbed light takes part in chemical reactions in the body."

This is how Brian McLaren describes what he does on his web site (tkwminis.tripod.com/id54.html), which begins by asking the question "Would you like to help your horses by removing their pain and improving their performance?":

"What is Photonic Therapy? - McLaren Photonic Therapy is a non-invasive, pain free, sterile, safe, and effective way to eliminate pain and promote healing. It is based on the use of a specific torch like instrument which produces 185mW of energy in the 660nm wavelength. The torch is turned on and placed on specific acupuncture points on the the skin. Under the skin is connective tissue which converts any stimulation into electrical impulses that are conveyed to the brain by the nerve cells. This stimulation changes the body's function by releasing certain chemicals and hormones from the brain that relieve pain, promote healing, and increse [sic] immune response."
 
Dilb wrote:

"What does that mean, exactly? I'm no biologist, ..."

"Photonic Therapy Theory" has set a pretty high bar for those of us who are not professional scientists. This is from the "Scientific Papers" page (.redlighttherapy.net/PhotonicTherapyTheory.html) of the "PHOTONIC SOLUTIONS" web site:

"To understand how Photonic Therapy works, one must have an understanding of some basic physics, biochemistry, phylogenetics, anatomy and acupuncture."

This is their explanation of how it works:

"When an acupuncture point is stimulated by a needle it produces pressure, and via the Piezo-electric crystal effect, an electrical stimulation which stimulated the nerves to stimulate the brain. This is not just a momentary effect, but the change in electrical potential at that location changes the energy levels of the surrounding cells for some 32 to 48 hours. The needle causes microtrauma, which releases a cascade of body substances, which act as chemical messengers to stimulate the nerve endings to stimulate healing. This is the same as if a person gets stung by a bee, where the injury is momentary but the effects can last for a couple of days.

"The chemical messengers released by the needle’s microtrauma, are called primary messengers. These stimulate AMP, which acts as a secondary messenger. When a light is shone on an acupuncture point it changes the electrical potential of the mitochondrial walls within the cell, and therefore the energy of the cell in exactly the same way as an acupuncture needle would do, by increasing AMP, without the problems associated with skin penetration."

I'm not a biologist either, and maybe that's why I don't understand how "electrical stimulation" with light can bring down a fever in children, or kill a virus in an alpaca.
 
I don't know about the "accupunture" stuff, or rather I think it's woowoo, but aside from the benefits of heat in some cases, as well as Vitamin D creation, there is a significant benefit to some who suffer from those dark winters in the north. That can give some people a genuine clinical depression that can be markedly improved by spending some time in front of very bright fluorescent lights every day.

I didn't see that in the above posts.
 
A request to Roni Spresser by someone to "point me to the medical literature on this" went unanswered. However, there was this exchange:

=======================================

Subject: Re: Photonic Therapy
Date: Mon Jan 30, 2006
From: "Steve Hull, TimberLakeFarms, Inc" <steve@...>

Roni, the heck with searching for PI alpacas with BVDV. There are lots of PI cows out there with BVDV and I bet some real close by you in Arkansas. Can your photonic therapy help with them?

Steve H.

=======================================

Subject: Admin note: Photonic Therapy
Date: Mon Jan 30, 2006
From: All American Alpacas <alpacas@...>

Hi all,

I'll admit that I was (and am) quite the skeptic, but decided to allow the posts regarding the Photonic light.

I'd hope that if someone does have a PI cria, they'd consider sending it to Roni.

Who knows?

We sure wouldn't have believed that 2 molds could have such a major but diametrically opposed impact in the 40's and 70's, but sure enough, mold brought penicillin and LSD.

Nothing ventured...

Rick
--
Rick & Pati Horn
All American Alpacas

=======================================

Subject: Re: Admin note: Photonic Therapy
Date: Mon Jan 30, 2006
From: "Steve Hull, TimberLakeFarms, Inc" <steve@...>

Sorry Rick, I disagree on the obvious sales job on alpacasite regarding this phototherapy. That is why there is the alpaca market site. If you google this "methodology", words like scam, fraud and others immediately appear.

And I will not even address the obvious situation of practicing veterinary medicine without a license. The problem is far too important to have a discussion recalling others based on mold, penicillin and LSD.

If she wants to test the ability to cure PI animals, then have her test it on the many PI cows first. There are lots in Arksansas.

Steve H.

=======================================

Subject: Re: Admin note: Photonic Therapy
Date: Mon Jan 30, 2006
From: "photonicsolutions" <roni@...>

Dear Steve,
First I would like to respond by saying this is not a sales job. I am sharing information about an alternative modality that has the potential to stop the spread of this virus in the alpaca industry, as of right now the answer to this is to euthanise PI crias. All I am asking is to let me pick up known PI crias on my own time, in my own trailer and bring these animals to my farm so that I can treat them with photonic therapy at my expense. My local vet has agreed to draw blood and retest these animals once the treatment plan has been completed. If and when I get a negative test result, these animals can be returned to a clean herd, there immune system will change over time. I will return any former PI crias to the original owners if they are willing to re-introduce them to their herd, if not they can remain on my farm to live out their lives. If I get a positive result after the treatment plan has been completed, these animals can also remain on my farm to live out their lives.

This is not practicing veterinary medicine, I do not diagnose these animals, they have been diagnosed by a licensed veterinarian before I ever get involved with them. There are several veterinarians in the state of Oklahoma using The McLaren Method of Photonic Therapy in their practices with great success in many different situations. The McLaren Method of Photonic Therapy is widely used in the horse industry as well, by such names as Pat Parelli-Natural Horsemanship.

As for treating PI calves. I have not been involved in the cattle industry because I am not interested in cattle. I am however interested in alpacas and I have had this interest far longer than I have been using photonic therapy. I own horses and have owned horses far longer than I have been using photonic therapy many of them my own, others, people have given me so that I could treat them and allow them to live a normal or somewhat normal life, when they(former owners)would have euthanised them(horses).

Scam, fraud--everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. This is my opinion based on personal experience with The McLaren Method of Photonic Therapy. The difference between this method and other photonic therapy or red light therapy is, Dr. McLaren has developed a system based on the concepts of eastern medicine(acupuncture using red light instead of needles). I do not have personal experience with other form of red light therapy. Please visit Dr. McLaren's website [address blocked by JREF], there are several scientific papers posted there.

Sincerely,

Roni Spresser
Photonic Solutions

=======================================

My question is, why is this treatment being wasted on alpacas? It's not about "infrared light as a modality to increase circulation", nor is it about using fluorescent lights to deal with "dark winters in the north".

The claim is being made that "Photonic Therapy" will kill Bovine Diarrhea Virus.

Why wasn't it used to kill the SARS virus several years ago? Why not eliminate HIV, and stop AIDS? And why are we worrying about an Avian Flu pandemic, which could kill millions of people, when we have "Photonic Therapy" to kill that virus?
 
Ken M. said:
My question is, why is this treatment being wasted on alpacas? It's not about "infrared light as a modality to increase circulation", nor is it about using fluorescent lights to deal with "dark winters in the north".

The claim is being made that "Photonic Therapy" will kill Bovine Diarrhea Virus.

Why wasn't it used to kill the SARS virus several years ago? Why not eliminate HIV, and stop AIDS? And why are we worrying about an Avian Flu pandemic, which could kill millions of people, when we have "Photonic Therapy" to kill that virus?
Click to expand...

These are excellent questions. I find myself suspicious since the alpaca industry has a great deal of money, and many of the new alpaca breeders have very little livestock experience and do not totally understand veterinary medicine or normal livestock practices.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable with these techniques if there were properly conducted double-blinded studies; instead, I hear of these techniques being used in questionable ways. I too have heard of someone trying to use this on a horse; not to cure a virus but some vague pain that the horse perhaps did not even have. (The horse looked OK to me, traveled sound etc.) I also wonder why the devices have to be so expensive..... and again that makes me suspicious.
 
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