Libby indicted..

[davefoc]

Does this help Libby?

The idea that the Vice President authroized Libby to use confidential material to attack Wilson seems like a defense against revealing secret information but it doesn't seem like a defense against perjury.

On the other hand, it may help Libby, in that it moves the case in a drection that could be particularly nasty for the Bush administration and that may help him if he can leverage the situation to get the Bush administration to covertly push to get this thing to go away.

 

[headscratcher4]

Can the VP authorize the public use of confidential material? Isn't it a crime for the VP to out a CIA agent? Just asking, don't know.

 

[bob_kark]

Does this help Libby?

The idea that the Vice President authroized Libby to use confidential material to attack Wilson seems like a defense against revealing secret information but it doesn't seem like a defense against perjury.

On the other hand, it may help Libby, in that it moves the case in a drection that could be particularly nasty for the Bush administration and that may help him if he can leverage the situation to get the Bush administration to covertly push to get this thing to go away.

I think it helps Cheney and other White House "superiors" more than it helps him. They can now claim that they authorized him to disclose classified information, but "We never dreamed he would do somethin' like this." "We're just as shocked as you are." "I'm ashamed for Libby that he took it all upon his lonesome self, with no help what-so-ever from the rest of us, to do such a despicable thing." and other aww shucks comments.

 

[davefoc]

I think it helps Cheney and other White House "superiors" more than it helps him. They can now claim that they authorized him to disclose classified information, but "We never dreamed he would do somethin' like this." "We're just as shocked as you are." "I'm ashamed for Libby that he took it all upon his lonesome self, with no help what-so-ever from the rest of us, to do such a despicable thing." and other aww shucks comments.

Yes, I can hear the Rove spin machine working on just the right wording to get that message out to the faithful. But they may feel that they've spun so well and so long on this that the faithful are appeased and the rest aren't going to be moved by new spin so why bother.

It is interesting how the other side will find new ammo for their spin out of this. Once again we see Cheney, the puppet master, at work. Once again we get the idea that truth didn't matter, Wilson's not on our side so even if he is telling the truth, let's screw him.

 

[DavidJames]

Yes, I can hear the Rove spin machine working on just the right wording to get that message out to the faithful.

I wouldn't be surprised if went along the lines of...This information was released to further the war on terror and make America safer. Those who are trying to take political advantage are emboldening the enemy, putting our brave soldiers abroad at risk and risking the lives of freedom loving Americans at home.

And all the sheeple will cry in unison "AMEN"

 

[davefoc]

Can the VP authorize the public use of confidential material? Isn't it a crime for the VP to out a CIA agent? Just asking, don't know.

I think this is an interesting question. I am sure (sort of) that the Vice President has almost no constitutional power, so I don't think he can do diddly if he is not in some way authorized by the president.

So, can the president authorize the Vice President to out a CIA agent?

I think the answer to this is in the same gray area that the NSA spying authorization issue is in.

As commander in chief it can be argued that the president can do lots of stuff that would otherwise be illegal for the safety of the nation. So the president, I think, is authorized to reveal secret information if it is done for a legitimate purpose.

So, if revealing the name of a CIA operative assisted with the US government's effort to solidify the nation's resistance to an enemy that the president perceives, would this be legal?

It is a bit murky but I think maybe so. But the president publically denied authorizing the leak or even knowing who did it, so it sounds like the leak was not authorized.

But, the vice president, might argue that based on some prior authorization from the president, that he was in fact authorized to make the leak even if the president didn't realize that the vice president had made the leak.

So maybe the president made some blanket authorization that he didn't fully realize the consequences of and the vice president interpreted it in such a way that it authorized him to release Plame's identity. And therefore the leak was arguably legal.

But what a bunch of horse ◊◊◊◊. If any of this happened the administration was so embarassed by their actions that they didn't feel like admitting them and they put the nation and Libby through this crap instead of just saying something to the effect that a mistake was made.

And one other point. What a bunch of bozos. Did somebody put the three stooges in charge of character assasination? How these shenanigans moved their case for war along is really hard to see. Let's just say Wilson was a complete doofus that only got the job because of his wife's connections. OK, but the information that Wison presented was essentially correct and was consistent with what other more credible sources were saying. So whether Wilson was a doofus or not the truth was likely to come out. And how much more effective would it have been to deal with the substance of what he was saying, especially where he had overstated his case?

 

[headscratcher4]

"Did somebody put the three stooges in charge ..."

Seems to me you just have to look at the results from the lack of intelligence on WMDs to the belief that the Iraqi insurgency is "in its last throes", to FEMA, etc. The answer seems obvious...

 

[Cylinder]

Can the VP authorize the public use of confidential material?

No. The President can declassify any information that he sees fit, such as JFK's famous use of imagery during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but there would be a separate issue involved with the Intelligence Identities Act if the POTUS asserted that particular power. The Veep clearly doesn't have the same authority through his office.

ETA: Just to be very clear, the Veep may well have declass authority for certain information classified CONFIDENTIAL - especially if that information originated in his office. He does not have the supreme class/declass authority that the POTUS possesses.

 

[Cylinder]

Libby's attorney in his perjury trial just released a statement that refutes the claim that Cheney authorized the leak or that their defense strategy would assert authorization. It makes sense, since Libby is not charged with leaking Plame's name but with lying to the grand jury about certain conversations with reporters. I'll dig up a link to the press release when I can find it.

 

[Cylinder]

No. The President can declassify any information that he sees fit, such as JFK's famous use of imagery during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but there would be a separate issue involved with the Intelligence Identities Act if the POTUS asserted that particular power. The Veep clearly doesn't have the same authority through his office.

According to Cheney's interview on Special Report tonight, there is an executive order that designates the Vice President as a declassification authority for certain information.

 

[gnome]

If he does have the authority, does it restrict under what circumstances he can use it? If there's no law against declassifying Plame's identity as a political attack, that would imply that it's up to the voters. To me, that implies he should be required to disclose his actions TO the voters.