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Libby found guilty

gumboot said:
Shouldn't this be in politics or current events or something?

-Gumboot
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There was a conspiracy to get the US into a war against Iraq using fake intel: example the Niger "yellowcake" report.
 
I'm going to go way out on a limb here and suggest that "bladding" is a typo for "blabbing" it makes sense in the context of Mailman's post.

Oh and MaGZ is probably going to blame those evil Buddhists again.
 
greyleonard said:
Here's a Dave Lindorff article about some of the background with the forged Niger documents.

excerpt:
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In the Lindorff, the author places the blame on the infamous Office of Special Plans locate in the Pentagon. Lindorff criticizes the mainstream media for not wanting to get at the root cause for this deception, however he himself ignores the basic question: Who forged the Niger documents?
Hint: it wasn’t the Italian cleaning lady.
 
Go on then MaGZ tell us who would do such a thing? Because I heard it was a UK University student working on a paper.

If it was the evil Omssad(Buddhist secret service) they might have got the names and dates right.
 
maccy said:
Yes, if you can do it without using the words Mossad, Israel, Jews, Zionists, Woody or Allen.
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More Missing Intelligence

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030707/dreyfuss


According to the former official, also feeding information to the Office of Special Plans was a secret, rump unit established last year in the office of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel. This unit, which paralleled Shulsky's--and which has not previously been reported--prepared intelligence reports on Iraq in English (not Hebrew) and forwarded them to the Office of Special Plans. It was created in Sharon's office, not inside Israel's Mossad intelligence service, because the Mossad--which prides itself on extreme professionalism--had views closer to the CIA's, not the Pentagon's, on Iraq. This secretive unit, and not the Mossad, may well have been the source of the forged documents purporting to show that Iraq tried to purchase yellowcake uranium for weapons from Niger in West Africa, according to the former official.
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sorry about that
 
Brainache said:
Go on then MaGZ tell us who would do such a thing? Because I heard it was a UK University student working on a paper.

If it was the evil Omssad(Buddhist secret service) they might have got the names and dates right.
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Maybe it was an early prototype Nigerian Email Scam?

DEAR SIR,

GREETINGS AND SALUTATIONS. I AM BEING MR RICKARDO NETAYABI, FORMERLY ENERGEY MINISTER OF NIGAR. I AM WRITING FOR THE PURPOSE OF A FINANCIAL VENTURE THAT MAY BE OF BENEFIT TO BOTH OF OUR PERSONS.

I AM CURRENTLY INTO THE POSSESSION OF SEVERAL TONNES OF YELLOW CAKE URANIUM FORMERLY OF THE PROPERTY OF THE GOVERNMENT OF NIGRE OF WHICH I WAS OF LATE A MEMBER, BEING MINISTER OF ENERGY.
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-Gumboot
 
Brainache said:
Because I heard it was a UK University student working on a paper.
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That was a different problem:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,891577,00.html

Here's wikipedia on the yellowcake:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcake_forgery

No mention of Buddhists there.

I think you might find coded references to them in these though:

http://www.counterpunch.org/kroth08022003.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/22/7563/12283
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030707/dreyfuss
http://www.kriegbooks.com/G. W. Bush Foreign Policy.html
 
So Libby has been found guilty for lying...

I remember everytime, on the Mineta issue, you guys throwing Libby's testimonies at my face, saying "you see Mineta has to be wrong, Libby supports Cheney's timeline". His credibility has just suffered a terribl blow. And actually, so did Cheney's.

Well, his conviction should simply show you how Mineta's testimony is indeed important. And don't tell me "ah but there is also the USSS memos and testimonies" because their testimonies are not worth anything.

Busherie
 
About MagZ's post:

The way a conspiracist's "mind" works is amazing!

An anonymous "former official" says about some secret Israeli unit: "This secretive unit, and not the Mossad, may well have been the source of the forged documents purporting to show that Iraq tried to purchase yellowcake uranium for weapons from Niger in West Africa, according to the former official."

Case closed then?

Well, not for me.

I demand a video, preferably on Youtube, showing this secret Israeli unit forging documents!
And if someone actually produces one, be aware that my computer doesn't play videos. Sometimes ...
 
maccy said:
That was a different problem:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,891577,00.html

Here's wikipedia on the yellowcake:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcake_forgery

No mention of Buddhists there. ...
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Thanks Maccy. Damn memory of mine always getting stuff wrong.

I noticed this bit in the wiki article:
Butler Report
The Butler Report issued after a review by the British government concluded that the report Saddam's government was seeking uranium in Africa appeared credible. Nevertheless, the Butler report fails to advance any evidence to substantiate this conclusion. Furthermore, the Butler report concluded that "The forged documents were not available to the British Government at the time its assessment was made, and so the fact of the forgery does not undermine it,"[4] which again could not be verified. In some ways the Butler Report does dispute the findings with this statement in the review. [5] "authorship of the dossier was a mistaken judgement."
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So I now believe the Butler did it.
 
busherie said:
So Libby has been found guilty for lying...

I remember everytime, on the Mineta issue, you guys throwing Libby's testimonies at my face, saying "you see Mineta has to be wrong, Libby supports Cheney's timeline". His credibility has just suffered a terribl blow. And actually, so did Cheney's.

Well, his conviction should simply show you how Mineta's testimony is indeed important. And don't tell me "ah but there is also the USSS memos and testimonies" because their testimonies are not worth anything.

Busherie
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It isn't Libby vs Mineta, it's Mineta vs everybody else (including the NORAD tapes). Mineta himself admits he must have been mistaken.

Gumboot sums it up well:

gumboot said:
It's worth pointing out that Mineta doesn't KNOW it's AA77. He made the assumption that it was AA77 heading for The Pentagon, based on the time he thinks the conversation happened.

The reality is it couldn't have been AA77 because at 0925, when the incident was alleged to have happened, AA77 was missing on radar, miles from Washington DC, and no one knew it had turned around. As late as 0934, Washington Centre still had absolutely no idea where AA77 was.

It wasn't until a minute and a half later that Boston Centre found AA77 - six miles from the White House. And they didn't know that it was AA77.

-Gumboot
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Really, Libby lying about one thing isn't evidence of his lying about anything else. You have to show evidence that he was lying - it would help to be able to say what it is that Mineta was describing. If you say that Cheney was stopping AA77 being shot down, you have to explain how AA77 was being tracked by the "young man" and how it was even possible to shoot it down.
 
Brainache said:
So I now believe the Butler did it.
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You're right to be suspicious, the UK is a hotbed of Quakerism:

The 19th century, the period that centers James Walvin's survey of British Quaker history, brought another transformation. The smallest of Britain's leading denominations, with numbers well below 20,000, Quakers were also rich. They dominated major consumer industries: confectionery in particular became a Victorian Quaker preserve -- the three leading British manufacturers, Cadbury, Fry and Rowntree, were all Quaker family firms -- but also pharmaceuticals and biscuits (cookies, crackers, wafers). Most striking of all were the Quaker bankers -- of the modern ''big four'' British banks, two (Barclays and Lloyds) are Quaker foundations.
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http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/03/01/reviews/980301.01hirstt.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

And the smoking gun is the name is Butler, as in Smedley Butler "The Fighting Quaker".
 
maccy said:
It isn't Libby vs Mineta, it's Mineta vs everybody else (including the NORAD tapes). Mineta himself admits he must have been mistaken.

Gumboot sums it up well:

Really, Libby lying about one thing isn't evidence of his lying about anything else. You have to show evidence that he was lying - it would help to be able to say what it is that Mineta was describing. If you say that Cheney was stopping AA77 being shot down, you have to explain how AA77 was being tracked by the "young man" and how it was even possible to shoot it down.
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Wrong: it's mineta, david bohrer (photograph), Richard Clarke, saying that Cheney left his office for the PEOC just after 0900 and not minutes before F77 crashed (0936).

For intel about F77, let me remind you of the Tigerwall system, being used by the USSS since late 2000, providing the USSS with intel about the incoming flight. That they were using Tigerwall has been confirmed by Barbara Riggs, Clarke, and... Cheny himself.

Therefore Mineta was hearing intel about F77, and he does not say he is not sure, he confirms twice in his testimony it was indeed F77.

Finally, Libby's conviction does not tell us that everything he said is a lie, but it does not tell us that he necesarily said the truth. I would like you to bear that in mind.


Thank you

Busherie
 
busherie said:
Wrong: it's mineta, david bohrer (photograph), Richard Clarke, saying that Cheney left his office for the PEOC just after 0900 and not minutes before F77 crashed (0936).

For intel about F77, let me remind you of the Tigerwall system, being used by the USSS since late 2000, providing the USSS with intel about the incoming flight. That they were using Tigerwall has been confirmed by Barbara Riggs, Clarke, and... Cheny himself.

Therefore Mineta was hearing intel about F77, and he does not say he is not sure, he confirms twice in his testimony it was indeed F77.

Finally, Libby's conviction does not tell us that everything he said is a lie, but it does not tell us that he necesarily said the truth. I would like you to bear that in mind.


Thank you

Busherie
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*Sigh*. We've been over this. Clarke's timeline is demonstratably incorrect. Tigerwall is a system for collating information from the FAA. It does not track aircraft. The FAA did not have radar data for AA77 at 0925, therefore Tigerwall did not have radar data for AA77.

Repeating something that is false does not make it true.

-Gumboot
 
busherie said:
So Libby has been found guilty for lying...

I remember everytime, on the Mineta issue, you guys throwing Libby's testimonies at my face, saying "you see Mineta has to be wrong, Libby supports Cheney's timeline". His credibility has just suffered a terribl blow. And actually, so did Cheney's.

Well, his conviction should simply show you how Mineta's testimony is indeed important. And don't tell me "ah but there is also the USSS memos and testimonies" because their testimonies are not worth anything.

Busherie
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Nice ad hom busherie.
 
Also, Busherie, you haven't said how it would have been possible to shoot down AA77, even if they knew where it was.

Again, if they didn't know where AA77 was and had no way of shooting it down, how could Cheney have been talking about AA77?
 
maccy said:
Also, Busherie, you haven't said how it would have been possible to shoot down AA77, even if they knew where it was.

Again, if they didn't know where AA77 was and had no way of shooting it down, how could Cheney have been talking about AA77?
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Indeed that's a good question. The answer is I don't know, and nobody does. The WH defense system is not known.

Anyway, I'll stop bringing up Mineta here, because there is an ultimate clash about him: you choose to believe Cheney & co, I choose to believe Mineta, Bohrer, Clarke etc...

Busherie
 
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