Let's Talk About Race

[DanishDynamite]

Why do people insist that races are just social/cultural constructs? According to Merriam-Webster race is the same as breed or sub-species. Is the differentiation between a Saint Bernard and a Poodle a cultural construct?

 

[Thanz]

Canada has a very high % of world class hockey players. Is that because Canadians are genetically superior when it comes to hockey skills?

Uh.. Yes. Sorry, but its just a fact.

Just ask Don Cherry.

 

[Thanz]

Actually, you know who we need to clear up all this race nonsense?

Sylvester McMonkey McBean.

 

[Tmy]

Uh.. Yes. Sorry, but its just a fact.

Just ask Don Cherry.

All that snow must have caused a genetic mutation in Canadians!

Or maybe it was that "Canadian bacon" aka HAM!

 

[Smalso]

I believe that anyone who believes that one race is superior to another is an ignorant, bigoted, certifiable a**h*l*. I guess some people have be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

 

[DanishDynamite]

I believe that anyone who believes that one race is superior to another is an ignorant, bigoted, certifiable a**h*l*. I guess some people have be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Stop beating around the bush, and say what you really think!

In any case, I agree. What pisses me off is the attempt by the PC crowd to fight racism by simply declaring that races don't exist.

 

[Guest]

I believe that anyone who believes that one race is superior to another is an ignorant, bigoted, certifiable a**h*l*.

I believe the same thing, Smalso, but around here, we have to prove they are.

 

[Baker]

Everyone has made very good points but I noticed that no one has took Luke’s offer to debate the facts on the Stormfront forum.
Is any one considering giving it a try?

 

[corplinx]

I hate to whack you with the cluebat here, buttttt ARGUEING WITH WHITE SUPREMACISTS IS FUTILE.

Argueing with people at places like stormfront is like argueing with creationists at one of their web sites. its entirely futile.

 

[Guest]

I hate to whack you with the cluebat here, buttttt ARGUEING WITH WHITE SUPREMACISTS IS FUTILE.

Argueing with people at places like stormfront is like argueing with creationists at one of their web sites. its entirely futile.

No. It is not futile. There are a lot of fencesitters over there. And a lot of lurkers. That sight is far more popular than this one!

And if you read the the crime statistics topic I linked, you will find I received a pretty high compliment from one of the moderators (Admin, maybe) about my approach. And I just noticed he mentioned the "correlation does not prove causation" statement in response to my nuclear reactor example and applauded me. I did not notice that before.

They really respect people who can argue from intellect instead of emotion. Give it a try.

 

[Clancie]

Danish Dynamite,

Its not so-called "PC" to point out that race is an obsolete, false construct that arose from the biases of the 19th century. Read any good recent biology on the subject.

Dancing David,

I just can't let this pass.

Take the Chinese they are way xeno-phobic and feel about thier culture the way that white supremists do about thier culture

And your evidence for that sweeping generality is....?

As for why people are loathe to give up the notion that "race" is meaningful, I think some people will always want to cling to an outmoded, scientifically unsubstantiated idea so they can continue to rationalize stereotyping.

 

[Guest]

At one point, we got into an argument on Stormfront about whether or not WNs advocate violence. The vehemently denied it. And they are extremely careful to avoid what they perceive would be criminal incitement to violence. When I pointed out a poem someone had written elsewhere on their forum that praised Timothy McVeigh's actions, they took immediate action.

Once you accept their ground rules, those guys are pretty fair. A lot more fair than most woo-woo sites are.

They do not tolerate emotional outbursts on the part of antis. That will get you banned.

Read my posts. I think I scored a few points. Got my tail whipped most of the time, but it was worth the effort. Just very fatiguing. I've been thinking about going back.

edited for typos

 

[DanishDynamite]

Clancy:

Its not "PC" to say race is an obsolete and false construct that arose from the biases of the 19th century.

Are you making a statement or asking a question?

Read any good biologists on the subject lately?

Nope. Have you?

I think some people like to cling to an outmoded, scientifically unsubstantiated idea--like race--in order to rationalize stereotypes.

I'd hate to speculate as to the reasons why people acknowledge the obvious existence of races. Personally, I just adhere to the definition of same.

 

[corplinx]

Okay, Storm Front is dedicated to "white pride". I just find the whole thing to be a sham. White is a collection of very different cultural minorities and a hodge podge of American mixed whites. I don't get the whole "white race" thing.

 

[hammegk]

... Is the differentiation between a Saint Bernard and a Poodle a cultural construct?

Would dna analysis differentiate between them? Chihuahua to St. Bernard to wolf?

Would anyone like to take the stand that all dog breeds are equally intelligent? Or that the difference, if any, is only genetic?

 

[Smalso]

take the Chinese they are way xeno-phobic and feel about thier culture the way that white supremists do about thier culture.

Clancy:

And your evidence for that sweeping generality is....?

Sweeping generality indeed. We have an acquaintance from China. She was an English teacher and acted as interpreter at a furniture exhibition where she met and later married a gentleman from Argentina who has a business in the United States. She was somewhat privileged in China because of her education and her profession. She loves the U.S. and the plentiful supplies of food, clothing and other goods and services available here. I have noticed none of the above-mentioned traits in her.

 

[Clancie]

Smalso,
Yes, I wonder how someone can so confidentally make such a sweeping statement.

originally posted by Clancy

It's not "PC" to say race is an obsolete and false construct that arose from the biases of the 19th century.

originally posted by Danish Dynamite

Are you making a statement or asking a question?

It was a statement.

originally posted by Clancy

Read any good biologists on the subject lately?

originally posted by Danish Dynamite

Nope. Have you?

Here's a link for you:

http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

originally posted by Danish Dynamite

I'd hate to speculate as to the reasons why people acknowledge the obvious existence of races. Personally, I just adhere to the definition of same.

Well, some people value scientific analysis, and some just like to stick to their old ideas, regardless. (shrugs)

 

[aerosolben]

In any case, I agree. What pisses me off is the attempt by the PC crowd to fight racism by simply declaring that races don't exist.

Well, the problem is that race != skin color. Australian Aboriginies and Africans are both black, but about as racially distinct as they can get.

 

[Guest]

Okay, Storm Front is dedicated to "white pride". I just find the whole thing to be a sham. White is a collection of very different cultural minorities and a hodge podge of American mixed whites. I don't get the whole "white race" thing.

Yeah. I have the same problem. What they accept as "white" is very confusing over there. And there is a pecking order of acceptance for all other races. They seem to accept Asians better than blacks, for example. Some hate Jews the most. Others hate blacks the most.

They like Palistinians just because Palistinians hate Jews, too.

As far as "races" go, they talk a lot about genetics. You can distinguish races by DNA and even bone structures.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Clancy:

It was a statement.

In which case I disagree.

Here's a link for you:

http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

Interesting attempt to combat racism by declaring that races don't exist. Before I quote from the paper itself, let me just quote part of the introduction concerning its validity:

It does not reflect a consensus of all members of the AAA, as individuals vary in their approaches to the study of "race." We believe that it represents generally the contemporary thinking and scholarly positions of a majority of anthropologists.

Now, to the meat. An excerpt:

Evidence from the analysis of genetics (e.g., DNA) indicates that most physical variation, about 94%, lies within so-called racial groups. Conventional geographic "racial" groupings differ from one another only in about 6% of their genes.

The page doesn't state what is understood by the "so-called racial groups". I wonder if this grouping consists of the completely outdated Caucasion, Negroid, Mongoloid, etc, division. In any case, the above result is immaterial. The determination of sub-species doesn't rely on genetic differences. The Northern White Rhino and the Southern White Rhino have, to my knowledge, NO genetic differences, and yet they are classified as distinct sub-species.

Well, some people value scientific analysis, and some just like to stick to their old ideas, regardless. (shrugs)

I agree.

aerosolben:

Well, the problem is that race != skin color. Australian Aboriginies and Africans are both black, but about as racially distinct as they can get.

I agree completely. Abos and "Africans" are certainly not the same race.