Lead us not into temptation...

[kimota]

In Matthew 6:9-13, Jesus gave an example of how to pray, which became the "Our Father" prayer. This prayer is frequently recited by millions of Christians worldwide. I recently considered the context of it and I'd like to share my observations and questions.

Our Father, who art in heaven,
To: God, Address: Heaven

hallowed by thy name.
Dear Sir:

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
We fully stand behind your mission objectives, in all of your markets.

Give us, this day, our daily bread...
We require a daily influx of necessary supplies...

...and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
...and we may make an occasional mistake, but please be understanding as we understand the mistakes of our associates.

Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
......wait, what?

This phrase sounds like a request that God doesn't actively lead us into temptation, as though it were something that God might do. The use of the conjunction "but" reinforces this. Rewording the phrase might be:
Don't lead us into temptation, instead, deliver us from evil.
If it were a more proactive statement, like: Lead us away from temptation and deliver us from evil, then that would be a request that God provide positive guidance, steering us clear of hazardous situations. However, as it is, it is giving God directions and we are the ones making the specifications and it's necessary to specify "not evil".
So, I'm left wondering, is it really necessary to remind God of this or make this sort of request? And millions of Christians have been reciting this for hundreds of years and nobody says, "wait, that's odd"?

 

[HansMustermann]

It's the same god that put a fruit tree in the middle of the f-ing garden with two newborns (those guys may have had a grown up brain, but remember they had not much data in it yet) with no sense of good or evil, and actually draws their attention to it.

I mean, geesh, as they say, there are three ways to get something done:
1. Do it yourself.
2. Hire someone to do it.
3. Forbid your children to do it.

So here's this guy who tells essentially two toddlers that they shouldn't eat that fruit. And actually shows them which.

How's that for leading into temptation?

 

[Steelmage]

You know the old saying "Lead us not into temptation, for we can find the way ourselves".

 

[Monketi Ghost]

He's a trickster, and you'll be punished forever if you make the wrong choice. God is capricious and ultimately uncaring. Talking snakes! Kill your son for me! Don't look back or she'll turn to salt!

 

[Beerina]

God reserves the right to produce hot girl-girl porn and shove it in front of your face to see if you look at it to determine if you should be tortured for ever and ever for enjoying something He enjoys, indeed, is already jaded silly from.

 

[TimCallahan]

The Greek word translated as "temptation" is "peirasmos." It can mean the following: hard testing, provocation, temptation. Perhaps a better translation would be, "Lead us not into hard testing, i.e. into a situation where our faith will be tried. That might not be that different from temptation, however, and one would think that hard testing would prove the faith ofthe believer.

 

[Marduk]

So, I'm left wondering, is it really necessary to remind God of this or make this sort of request? And millions of Christians have been reciting this for hundreds of years and nobody says, "wait, that's odd"?

at the time it was written "temptation" was the biggest gay nightclub in Galilee

 

[KingMerv00]

The Greek word translated as "temptation" is "peirasmos." It can mean the following: hard testing, provocation, temptation. Perhaps a better translation would be, "Lead us not into hard testing, i.e. into a situation where our faith will be tried. That might not be that different from temptation, however, and one would think that hard testing would prove the faith ofthe believer.

Your translation brings up the same problems. Why would God mess with us?

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Hey, look at this exciting thing... Ha! You're going to helllll
Hey, isn't this idea fun? Let's do it... Ha! You're going to hellll
Think about this for a moment... Ha! You're going to hellll
You're having too much fun

 

[The Nimble Pianist]

[/I]Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
......wait, what?

From what I've been told by Catholic priests, this is simply a horrible English translation of the Latin Vulgate. Romance languages similar to Latin are much more faithful to the meaning.

In Spanish, I know the end of the prayer is:

"No nos dejes caer en tentación" = "Do not let us fall into temptation"

Anyone speak Latin here by chance?

 

[TimCallahan]

From what I've been told by Catholic priests, this is simply a horrible English translation of the Latin Vulgate. Romance languages similar to Latin are much more faithful to the meaning.

In Spanish, I know the end of the prayer is:

"No nos dejes caer en tentación" = "Do not let us fall into temptation"

Anyone speak Latin here by chance?

No, but I do have access to the mening of the words in the original Greek. The Greek word 'eisphero" means "bear into." Thus, a negation of this would be, "Bear us not into hard testing." the Greek, the original language the books of the New Testament were written in, trumps the Latin every time.

As to the idea that God might deliberately harm someone or lead them into error, consider Romans 1:24: "God gave them up to uncleanness . . ." and Rom. 1:28, "God gave them over to a reprobate mind . . ." In both cases the Greek word, variously translated as "gave them up" or "gave them over" is "paradidomi," which means everything from "surrender" to "deliver over" to "betray." Even if God only surrendered people to uncleanness, it would be a deliberate, if passve, act. Or how bout Rom. 11:32? "For God has consigned all men in unbelief that he might have merccy on them all." The word translated as "consigned" is "sugkleio" meaing to "shut up." So God has deliberately shut people up in their disbelief, forcing them to be sinners, so he can have mercy on them later.

So, even a late as the first century of the Common Era, these beleivers believed that God deliberately led some astray forhis own mysterious reasons.

 

[elbe]

So here's this guy who tells essentially two toddlers that they shouldn't eat that fruit. And actually shows them which.

How's that for leading into temptation?

Well, god did tell eve that "you must not touch it, or you will die" ^Gen3:2-3, that's sort of a strong way to say no - with threats and lies.

 

[arthwollipot]

Anyone speak Latin here by chance?

Ooooh, it's been a long long time, but I'll have a go. (ETA: I did four years of Latin in high school)

"Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo."

The first online translator lists the translations of the verb inducare as "to bring, lead, conduct, cover, dress, put on clothing, erase writing, revoke, anull, bring in, annul, introduce, induce, persuade, decide"

That definitely suggests a meaning of God directly causing us to be tempted. "God, don't put me in a situation where I will be tempted." This agrees with the OP - why would God do that to you in the first place?

 

[Aitch]

That definitely suggests a meaning of God directly causing us to be tempted. "God, don't put me in a situation where I will be tempted." This agrees with the OP - why would God do that to you in the first place?

Er, Heaven isn't as spacious as the estate agent (realtor?) told him it was and he has to make sure not too many souls turn up at the front door demanding entry?

 

[Kopji]

This is one of those Bible problems that Joseph Smith definitely set straight. It is to be rendered - 'suffer us not to be led into temptation'.
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