Kerry's SUV

hgc said:
Campaign 2004 pop quiz

Which of the following is a valid campaign issue?

1) Kerry owns and SUV.

2) Bush took our country into war on a mountain of lies.
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Ah yes, the platitude version of campaign issues. How's this for an alternative perspective:

1) Kerry's stance on environmental issues is cynical and fake.

2) Bush acted from a conviction about what needed to be done for the defense of this country.

There are indeed real issues swirling underneath all of this. And you are correct that the SUV issue is not in itself important. But your representation of number 2 isn't an issue, it's YOUR stance on an issue, and you seem confused about the difference.
 
Ziggurat said:
1) Kerry's stance on environmental issues is cynical and fake.
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As determined by policy decisions and votes, or by what car is in the driveway?
2) Bush acted from a conviction about what needed to be done for the defense of this country.
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Oh, the conviction thing. That and a token will get you on the subway. Is Bush's malfeasance greater parts incompetence or criminality? That's worthy of discussion.
 
Originally posted by patnray
Is that fact or your stance?
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It is as much a fact as the statement that "Bush took our country into war on a mountain of lies." Which is to say, it is not a fact, it is a position. I am not making any statement that it is MY position, merely pointing out that the comparison made between Kerry's SUV ownership and Bush's war decision is not a statement of fact but of position, and one can make statements of position on the same issues that are radically different but also quite arguable.

But in case you're curious, I suspect that Kerry's position on the environment may be cynical and fake, used to garner support from the left-wing base rather than any deep concern on his part for the environment. I am not convinced of this now (I haven't payed close attention to environmental issues this election because that's not the most important issue to me this year), but I do consider it quite possible. Even if I conclude this to be the case, I can recognize that that is a position I would take, and not a hard fact. Many people don't seem to realize that their positions are only that, positions, and not fact.
 
hgc said:
Campaign 2004 pop quiz

Which of the following is a valid campaign issue?

1) Kerry owns and SUV.

2) Bush took our country into war on a mountain of lies.
Click to expand...
Begs the question.
 
Personally, if I could afford the gas for one I'd like to have the extra metal between my family and the random drunk driver. I wouldn't really care whether Kerry owned an SUV or not but for the fact that "we'll decide what's best for you" environmentalists have made ownership of one such an issue over the years.

So, when asked about his position on the environment and Kerry responds with "I've never owned an SUV," obviously trying to appeal to that group, then yeah, I think it's fair game to ask him about that one parked in his driveway.

But its not the ownership itself, rather the typical politcial weaseling that bugs me.

"Oh, that SUV? Well, that's not mine, it's my wife's."

"Medals thrown in protest? ... Those weren't mine either."

Lame.

I'd have a lot more respect for Kerry if he'd just suck it up and take the heat.

"Yes, I threw those f*cking medals. I was pissed off that my government was letting my fellow soldiers die for no reason."

"Do I own an SUV? Sure, look at it parked over there in my driveway. It takes a hell of a lot of gas but it keep me and my family safe. I think we need alternative energy solutions. But until there's something just as safe that runs on hydrogen, I keep driving it."
 
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