Upchurch
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Karl Rove's comments
- Thread starter Upchurch
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Well, how's it playing? Rove was pretty careful to say "liberals," not "Democrats" (he was speaking at a Conservative Party meeting), but of course that kind of nuance may not translate through the media.
Durbin's comments didn't play -- a poll show that a solid majority of Americans think he's wrong. I think that Dean's stuff, despite all the front-page furor, is inside baseball. The left's active base is eating it up and the right's active base is either furious or amused depending on how secure they are, while most Americans don't really care.
We'll see where in that spectrum Rove's comments fit into the mix. One advantage -- he apparently was prepared. When Democrats howled, half the GOP activists in the country had a list of quotes which seem to have demonstrated that Rove's words were accurate.
His comments certainly weren't as dumb as the Flag amendment proposal. Whilst something like 70% of Americans support it in polls, I suspect they support actually working on such an amendment after all the other work is done. It's a nervous country out there and I don't think they'll appreciate Congress spending its time on a dozen or so idiot flag burners any mroe than they did on it spending its time on a single family dispute in Florida.
Durbin's comments didn't play -- a poll show that a solid majority of Americans think he's wrong. I think that Dean's stuff, despite all the front-page furor, is inside baseball. The left's active base is eating it up and the right's active base is either furious or amused depending on how secure they are, while most Americans don't really care.
We'll see where in that spectrum Rove's comments fit into the mix. One advantage -- he apparently was prepared. When Democrats howled, half the GOP activists in the country had a list of quotes which seem to have demonstrated that Rove's words were accurate.
His comments certainly weren't as dumb as the Flag amendment proposal. Whilst something like 70% of Americans support it in polls, I suspect they support actually working on such an amendment after all the other work is done. It's a nervous country out there and I don't think they'll appreciate Congress spending its time on a dozen or so idiot flag burners any mroe than they did on it spending its time on a single family dispute in Florida.
Well, a majority of respondents probably had little idea about what Durbin actually said.manny said:
He selected a particularly grim chunk of an FBI description of Gitmo, then said that that section sounded like something out of Hitler’s or Stalin’s regime, which it did (shackled prisoners defecating on themselves, crazed prisoners pulling their own hair out in clumps, etc).
The right-wing media echo chamber translated this into “Dick Durbin says that US troops are as bad as Nazis.†This was the version picked up by the mainstream media (who have long since learned that if they attack a Conservative, they are in for a fight, but if they attack a Liberal, nothing happens). Rather than trying to correct the deliberate lies spread by FOX, Limbaugh, and the other conservative talking heads, the Democratic party folded completely and denounced Durbin’s comments. It’s part of their “Retreat to Victory†plan.
Meanwhile, the average American, who doesn’t have time to look up the actual quote, just sees this huge brouhaha on TV and in the press and assumes that Durbin said something wrong. Then they are polled on whether or not they think he is wrong, the results of the poll become a story themselves, and on and on it goes…
Sadly, I don’t have cable. There are only a few, very specific channels that I want, and every cable or satellite package that has all of them costs more than I am willing to pay. I am sure someone will post it on the internet before too long.Mark said:
As for Dean, he is more than willing to fight, but whenever he tries, a bunch of “Sensible Democrats†come out and denounce him.
Random said:
True...not to mention the fact that most of the media will attack him at every turn as well; nevertheless, he sounded pretty determined to help the Dems regain their collective spine. We'll see; it'll be an uphill struggle, that's for certain.
Renfield
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Upchurch said:Article
I don't know who is the bigger idiot: Howard Dean for directly attacking the Republicans, Karl Rove for doing the exact same thing after seeing the backlash it had for Dean, or this Dan Bartlett for having no clue why people get upset when you attack them.
i doubt the media is going to go after Rove with anything close to the same intensity they went after Dean with
Renfield
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Random said:
"retreat to victory". i like it. it certainly seems like its part of some organized strategy, doesn't it? you see it happen so often with the dems. i think thats part of dean's appeal.
lol about the comment regarding the "subleties" of roves comments. oh, he was just attacking "liberals". glad to see he wasn't generalizing at all. anyway, he doesnt have much to fear from the media anyway. they are not going to run with it like they did with dean's comments. most of which were twisted and manipulated before the press got to them. drop a qualifying term here, the first part of a statement there, suddenly you have something very controversial.
RandFan
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Re: Re: Karl Rove's comments
Its got to be a conspiracy.
Seriously, FWIW, I think the news media is between a rock and a hard spot. They have been targeted for so long by the right that they are loathe to pull a Dan Rather. They do often come off looking conciliatory to the right. There are however many anecdotes of the media screwing up the reporting regardless of which side they are reporting on.
Damn right wing media.Renfield said:
Its got to be a conspiracy.Seriously, FWIW, I think the news media is between a rock and a hard spot. They have been targeted for so long by the right that they are loathe to pull a Dan Rather. They do often come off looking conciliatory to the right. There are however many anecdotes of the media screwing up the reporting regardless of which side they are reporting on.
Renfield said:
Last night John Stewart asked Howard Dean if the idea was to be like Ali against George Foreman, where Ali just let Foreman keep punching him until Foreman got tired. Got a good laugh, but, sometimes it sure seems like that is what they are doing.
Re: Re: Re: Karl Rove's comments
Once again I will raise my complaint that while the documents Dan Rather had were forged, the information in them was correct according to eyewitnesses. The media ignored the far larger story that the president of the United States is a military deserter, while happily feeding Dan Rather to the screaming mob.
The media are not between a rock and a hard spot. They have (largely) sold their souls to the Republican Party.
RandFan said:Damn right wing media.
Seriously, FWIW, I think the news media is between a rock and a hard spot. They have been targeted for so long by the right that they are loathe to pull a Dan Rather. They do often come off looking conciliator to the right. There are however many anecdotes of the media screwing up the reporting regardless of which side they are reporting on.
Once again I will raise my complaint that while the documents Dan Rather had were forged, the information in them was correct according to eyewitnesses. The media ignored the far larger story that the president of the United States is a military deserter, while happily feeding Dan Rather to the screaming mob.
The media are not between a rock and a hard spot. They have (largely) sold their souls to the Republican Party.
Renfield
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actually, in the democrats defense, when they do try to fight back, it doesn't do much good. the punditry, which is dominated by the right these days, generally seems to decide what's controversial and what isn't, and the MSM goes with that. when it comes to these media battles, the leftare have got bows and arrows and the right is using ballistic missiles.
Renfield
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Re: Re: Re: Karl Rove's comments
why would it be necessary for them to conspire? they are being pressured by the right, and are owned by mulitnational corporations. they've got similar backgrounds and interests. a conspiracy isn't necessary to explain their behavior
is a conspiracy responsible for the fact that i can't flip through the cable stations without coming across some right wing loudmouth spouting off, often times about the so called liberal media?
RandFan said:Damn right wing media.
why would it be necessary for them to conspire? they are being pressured by the right, and are owned by mulitnational corporations. they've got similar backgrounds and interests. a conspiracy isn't necessary to explain their behavior
is a conspiracy responsible for the fact that i can't flip through the cable stations without coming across some right wing loudmouth spouting off, often times about the so called liberal media?
Renfield
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl Rove's comments
notice how quick the so called liberal media was in pointing out the flaws in the documents too. i don't think the story was even done airing before the attacks on rather started. the fact that the secretary who backed up the forgery claims also said that what was written in the documents was basically true was ignored. thats how their writer felt about Bush.
the whole episode was treated as proof that the claims about his NC service were false. unanswered questions about bush's discharge, his skipping a physical, etc. were ignored
it reminds me of how that whole koran in the toilet incedent was covered. for a number of weeks, it was as if all the anti american sentiment in the middle east was newsweeks responsibility, because of one line in a very large story.
Mark said:
notice how quick the so called liberal media was in pointing out the flaws in the documents too. i don't think the story was even done airing before the attacks on rather started. the fact that the secretary who backed up the forgery claims also said that what was written in the documents was basically true was ignored. thats how their writer felt about Bush.
the whole episode was treated as proof that the claims about his NC service were false. unanswered questions about bush's discharge, his skipping a physical, etc. were ignored
it reminds me of how that whole koran in the toilet incedent was covered. for a number of weeks, it was as if all the anti american sentiment in the middle east was newsweeks responsibility, because of one line in a very large story.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl Rove's comments
You do realize, of course, that without those actions, there WAS no story?
You have no more right to assert that as a fact than Dan Rather did, and for the very same reasons. Eyewitnesses are not particularly reliable as evidence; hence the need to fabricate hard proof and find a patsy to communicate it to the public.
Doesn't that tickle the skepticism center of your brain just a little bit?
Mark said:
You do realize, of course, that without those actions, there WAS no story?
You have no more right to assert that as a fact than Dan Rather did, and for the very same reasons. Eyewitnesses are not particularly reliable as evidence; hence the need to fabricate hard proof and find a patsy to communicate it to the public.
Doesn't that tickle the skepticism center of your brain just a little bit?
Renfield
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl Rove's comments
The documents were only one small part of that story. There were a lot of problems with Bush's history in the guard long before the Rather episode. You've been listening to Rush and friends too much, I think.
Jocko said:
The documents were only one small part of that story. There were a lot of problems with Bush's history in the guard long before the Rather episode. You've been listening to Rush and friends too much, I think.