JREF Employees..."Leaking" Challenge Information?

Howdy, TP --

Another point, too -- or, rather, a suggestion: as you can probably tell, a lot of people here are getting the impression that you really have no intention whatsoever of actually pursuing the Challenge in a sincere in honest way. Rather, the impression is that you are simply trying to "gather ammunition" so that you can badmouth James Randi, the JREF, and the Challenge.

Assuming that this is not true, it would really help it if you would start answering some of the questions about your claims* in a very direct and straightforward way, instead of answering them with rhetorical questions of your own like "would it bother you if you found out that JREF were behaving unethically?"

*By claims, I refer to Claim One (your Challenge claim) and Claim Two (that a person or persons within the JREF organization is acting in an unethical fashion). To answer your question -- it would indeed bother me very much if I were to find out that anyone in the JREF were acting in an unethical fashion. However, you have yet to actually establish that this is so (or answer any of the questions asking for the details).
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Translation: When I fail the challenge (and I will), I can claim it was because of the negative vibrations created by the leak.
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I tend to agree. There are already SO many loopholes that appear to have been deliberately constructed as an "out" for this application, such as already setting the time and place for the challenge before the JREF acknowledges the application, and now these claims of "leaked information".

For those who are interested, you can hear The Professors announcement of the details of his challenge application on the 'Ghostman and Demon Hunter' show podcast from August 17. Please keep in mind that at the date of broadcast, the JREF had not announced (and as far as I'm aware, still haven't) receipt of The Professors application.

http://ghostanddemon.podomatic.com/

Jackalgirl said:
Howdy, TP --

Another point, too -- or, rather, a suggestion: as you can probably tell, a lot of people here are getting the impression that you really have no intention whatsoever of actually pursuing the Challenge in a sincere in honest way. Rather, the impression is that you are simply trying to "gather ammunition" so that you can badmouth James Randi, the JREF, and the Challenge.
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I've been involved in many threads over at The Magic Cafe with The Professor regarding the JREF and the MDC. He has been posting negative comments about Randi and the JREF for quite some time. I have a feeling (and this is just my opinion) that this application has more to do with the publicity aspect of The Professors career as a mentalist/medium/psychic/whatever than it has to do with garnering ammunition to badmouth Mr. Randi and his organisation.

I have no doubt that the event on October 31st will go ahead, with or without the participation of the JREF. Although I expect that should the JREF not participate, we are bound to hear (more on The Magic Cafe than on this forum) accusations that the JREF "ran" because they couldn't prove that the claim wasn't real.

Regards,

Chris
 
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GuerrillaMagic said:
I have a feeling (and this is just my opinion) that this application has more to do with the publicity aspect of The Professors career as a mentalist/medium/psychic/whatever than it has to do with garnering ammunition to badmouth Mr. Randi and his organisation.
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I agree. I also think that it is very likely that The Professor is counting on the extra publicity now, and that he can let the challenge die quietly if he feels that negotiations proceed in a way that is not advantageous for him, and that the public will not remember.
 
Sorry, that possibility slipped my mind (although I remember people mentioning it). That's certainly another huge possibility -- and one that would be alleviated by a sincere dialogue here.

Remember, though, that TP has indicated that he is getting married in a couple of days, so if he is scarce, it may not be a good idea to assume his silence means he's insincere.

On the other hand, TP, what were you thinking? Launching an application mere days before your wedding, going on a honeymoon...when you get back, you are going to have very little time to get your protocol hammered out. Not to put pressure on your honeymoon -- congrats, good luck, and have fun, I mean that seriously! -- but boy it's going to be a close thing, if it happens at all.
 
Ohhh! So this isn't Rosemary Hunter making another go... at the MDC. :blush:
 
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As near as I can determine (David, please confirm this if you can), this all was a misunderstanding. I think what happened is this:

1) David sent in his app, registered mail
2) David spoke about said app in a radio show
3) Various messages were posted in the Magic Cafe
4) GuerrillaMagic came here and posted about it, including a transcription of the actual claim, as related by David in the radio show. This claim talked about time and place and roughly about what was going to be demonstrated (to whit, a "paranormal entity"), but contained no other details.
5) RemieV posted David's email to her asking about the status of the application, and also posted her reply. In it, she explained that she is not on site, so her not having doesn't mean that the JREF doesn't have it, merely that it has not been forwarded to her yet.
6) Myriad, seeing that the claim includes a place (Lake Helen, in Florida), Googles Lake Helen, and posts information about "the Devil's Chair".
7) David claims that the JREF has "leaked" information about his application. In this very thread, he stated that JREF is claiming not to have the application when he knows they do.

As near as I can tell, it was Myriad's post about "the Devil's Chair" that did it; that was a detail that's in the application itself (as later posted by David in its entirety) that was not in the original radio version of the claim. That, and the fact that he probably confirmed that the letter had been received at JREF, and yet RemieV posted that she did not have it, led him to erroneously believe that someone was sharing the contents of his application and lying about the receipt of the application.

However, it's been pointed out that RemieV already told him that she's not in the same location as the JREF, so her not having it doesn't mean they haven't received it, just that she hasn't gotten it yet. And also that, according to the Challenge rules themselves, there is nothing confidential about the application or any correspondence related to the application -- that is, that JREF reserves the rights to use that info any way it wants (which includes talking about it on the Forum).

So I think that we have solved the mystery. Just a misunderstanding. There are no nefarious or unethical actions going on at JREF (at least, as related to this particular application).
 
Jackalgirl said:
So I think that we have solved the mystery. Just a misunderstanding. There are no nefarious or unethical actions going on at JREF (at least, as related to this particular application).
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Misunderstandings are often the elaborate cover of a conspiracy (I should know).

Now that you have publicly acknowledged that "JREF" does have the application, could you please leak something exciting enough to keep this thread alive.

Prof 1, JREF 0, Paranormal entity -1

Randi is probably getting the check signing pen ready as I type this.

The woo community must be so excited, this is the real thing.
 
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Note that neither I, nor David, or JREF, have explictly confirmed that the letter has been received. I am making the tentative assumption that David confirmed the letter had been received (using his tracking number), based on the fact that David said a) there was a tracking number and b) that he knew the JREF had received it. But he has never said "I checked with the post office and the letter's status is 'delivered'" or anything liek that.

JREF has not acknowledged that they have received it (at the main office), as far as I know -- nor have they posted that they haven't received it (at the main office), either.
 
I can't tell exactly what kind of information it could possibly be both unethical and possible for the JREF to leak, even hypothetically. (There's always information about everybody that would be unethical to leak, but I don't get why he would have sent JREF that kind of information in the first place.)

* * *

Are applicants and fake-applicants for this challenge always this melodramatic and whiny?
 
Delvo said:
Are applicants and fake-applicants for this challenge always this melodramatic and whiny?
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I think it appears that way because they are so excited. You'd be excited to if you were about to become a millionaire. Did you see the photo of him mailing in the application? Obviously very confident. And excited.

I wonder if he gets that pumped when he mails in a Publishers Clearinghouse Sweepstakes form? He should be. His chances of winning that are better than getting the MDC money.

Another leak please? Even if you don't have the app yet.

You know if JREF had an online MDC application.......j/k
 
From my reading of:
http://pe.usps.gov/text/DMM300/503.htm#3_0
it's not entirely clear that you can't get a letter certified by the USPS and then just throw it away.

Under "normal" circumstances one would not do this as it's to your benefit to have something delivered and have confirmation of delivery. But I can think of other circumstances.

Is my understanding of the certification process correct? Canada Post no longer offers a certified mail service and has combined it with Registered Mail. You must had the letter to be registered to the post office official and you don't touch again.

All Registered Mail must be deposited at an authorized post office, or given to a rural mail carrier. Such items are not to be dropped into a street mailbox or mail receptacle. The sender is provided with a proof of mailing at the time of mailing.
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Just Asking Questions™ :confused:
 
Jackalgirl said:
So I think that we have solved the mystery. Just a misunderstanding. There are no nefarious or unethical actions going on at JREF (at least, as related to this particular application).
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That was my reading of the situation too. Would anyone care to lay odds on an apology from TP being forthcoming?
 
The Professor said:
Cuddles .... If the JREF claims that they DON'T HAVE the application ... Which they do, at the address that I've sent it to ON THE APPLICATION ITSELF....... Then how would it show up on this Forum without a leak?
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Thanks everyone who guessed at the truth of the matter. I'll go ahead and reiterate...

No one ever said the JREF doesn't have your application. *I* do not have your application. I am not on-site at the JREF. As I am the one who does preliminary protocol negotiations, that stage of the process cannot begin until *I* receive the application.

Again, I am not on-site at the JREF. Again, updates on your claim are not going to be available daily. There are more applicants than just you. Wait your turn.

As to leaking information, I haven't the foggiest what you're talking about. Feel free to clarify.
 
Moochie said:
So far, there's been an awful lot of wind, and nothing of substance. I call SHENANIGAN!

M.
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Shenanigans has been declared! Everybody get your brooms!!!

Seriously... What is the fuss about, Professor? It sounds like a lot of bluster about nothing, in an effort to pre-muddy the waters, so that when you fail you can recall all the "leaking of information" that occurred.
 
ObscureReferenceMan said:
Shenanigans has been declared! Everybody get your brooms!!!

Seriously... What is the fuss about, Professor? It sounds like a lot of bluster about nothing, in an effort to pre-muddy the waters, so that when you fail you can recall all the "leaking of information" that occurred.
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Amen!

Chris
 
I think I see the problem here-he seems to think that this is nothing more than another "performance", and that we are honor-bound not to reveal his secrets to the audience.
 
Very interesting revelation from a supposedly sincere applicant: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=267933&forum=251&start=570
Sorry Randwill ... you'd better read the JREF site a bit closer!
Perhaps a search for the words paranormal event might help.
Randi claims there is no paranormal and has taken Millions from people at places like Dragoncon
No one has ever been tested for the Million dollars in 13 years!
He takes money and risks nothing. Nice deal
And you are part of it
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All sorts of leaks about his methods and his motivations, straight from the horse's mouth.
 
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The Professor has not posted here in three weeks. He has not yet provided evidence for his allegation of a leak/an unethical act on part of the JREF.

The Professor's application - along with his presentation of said - has publicity/marketing stunt written all over it.

Oh yeah: No test will happen.
 
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