JREF Employees..."Leaking" Challenge Information?

[Jackalgirl]

Howdy! In this thread about the Million Dollar Challenge claim of "Psychic Samurai" aka "The Professor", The Professor either asks a rhetorical question or suggests that employees of the JREF are "leaking" information. I responded to it, but the thread in question is just supposed to be about his MDC claim itself. Therefore, I post it here to continue the discussion in the correct place.

Would it give anyone additional insight into the JREF if you found out that the JREF was "Leaking" information to members of the Forum? I'm not talking about blatantly printing personal Emails before they've even received the application, that's just too obvious. No, I'm talking about "LEAKING" information to someone here deliberately.
Would that affect how you see my challenge?

Not really. Are you claiming that an official representative of the JREF is doing this? If so, who, to whom, and how? And what evidence do you have that this is happening?

Also, I don't think it would matter. I call your attention to Rule 4 of the Application:

4. Applicant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, written, etc.) gathered as a result of the setup, the protocol, and the actual testing, may be used freely by the JREF.

In other words, no part of the process is confidential; therefore, there's nothing to leak.

Of course, this does not give JREF or any of its official representatives (to whit: Jeff Wagg and RemieV) the right to misrepresent, or outright lie about, any of the information that you have sent regarding your claim. Although I am not sure if you are claiming or implying that this is happening...are you?

Be advised that if you make this claim -- especially without evidence -- someone is bound to suggest that you are attempting to set yourself up a preemptive "out". "Someone leaked my information, therefore the test was unfair!"

I'd have to state, though, that anyone suggesting this should remember this: it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether information is "leaked", because no part of the process is confidential (according to Rule 4). Ultimately, all that matters is that a) the JREF agrees that your claim is acceptable (that is, testable), and b) that you and the JREF are in clear agreement as to what will constitute a demonstration, what will constitute success, and what will constitute failure.

BTW... Thank you Jackalgirl ... You have proven my point. There ARE some open minded folks on this forum. I will try to give as much info as I can provided there are no LEAKS or misrepresentations of my statements.

I'm sure there will be various people who will attempt to distort what you say by "selective reading", misquotation, or whatever. It always happens. However, the beauty of the Forum is that your own posted words will be here for reference. As long as you post clearly, unambiguously, and concisely, I don't think there will be any problems in the long run.

[summary]
And then I went on to encourage him to post the details of his claim.
[/summary]

 

[Czarcasm]

I am curious as to what aspects his claim for the MDC The Professor thinks should be kept secret from the rest of us. How does one "leak" an open claim?

 

[Cuddles]

As far as I can tell, the only person who even has any information to "leak" is The Professor himself. RemieV has said in that thread that no application has been recieved yet. How can anyone leak anything if they don't have anything to leak?

Of course, as JackalGirl points out, the entire process is made public anyway, so it really isn't possible for either side to leak anything.

 

[The Professor]

My question is ....
Does it even matter to you? If I show that information "IN MY OPINION" was LEAKED to a member of the forum or someone from the JREF pretending to be a member (In secret)..
Would anyone here even see how Unethical that is, or would they just keep BELIEVING how fair this is?

Cuddles .... If the JREF claims that they DON'T HAVE the application ... Which they do, at the address that I've sent it to ON THE APPLICATION ITSELF....... Then how would it show up on this Forum without a leak?

 

[Cuddles]

My question is ....
Does it even matter to you? If I show that information "IN MY OPINION" was LEAKED to a member of the forum or someone from the JREF pretending to be a member (In secret)..
Would anyone here even see how Unethical that is, or would they just keep BELIEVING how fair this is?

Once again, the entire process of application, discussion and testing it made public. It is not possible to leak something that was not private to begin with.

Cuddles .... If the JREF claims that they DON'T HAVE the application ... Which they do, at the address that I've sent it to ON THE APPLICATION ITSELF

Are you calling them liars? That's not really the best way to get them, or anyone else, to take you seriously, is it?

....... Then how would it show up on this Forum without a leak?

You mean apart from you posting around the internet yourself?

 

[Garrette]

In the original thread, Slim (The Professor) makes several accusations about JREF posters calling him a liar. This is his latest such post.

Slim, I re read the thread. No one called you a liar. People asked you questions; when you provided no answers they speculated and admitted to speculated (though they used different words).

I'll make you happy, though, so you can tell the magiccafe that you were mistreated:

I am calling you a liar now for saying that you have been called a liar in that thread. Prove me wrong and make me retract, or accept the label.

 

[Doubt]

How do you leak information that is not confidential in the first place?

 

[Garrette]

How do you leak information that is not confidential in the first place?

Keep it in a mind too open.

 

[Bandersnatch]

Which they do, at the address that I've sent it to ON THE APPLICATION ITSELF....... Then how would it show up on this Forum without a leak?

You mentioned before that it was sent certified mail, is there a tracking number you can use to verify that they've received it?

 

[steenkh]

Cuddles .... If the JREF claims that they DON'T HAVE the application ... Which they do, at the address that I've sent it to ON THE APPLICATION ITSELF....... Then how would it show up on this Forum without a leak?

From your own post:

I have stated publicly what my claim IS and I've posted links to it.

This seems to be a likely source. If anybody are leaking, you are the one.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

My question is ....
Does it even matter to you? If I show that information "IN MY OPINION" was LEAKED to a member of the forum or someone from the JREF pretending to be a member (In secret)..
Would anyone here even see how Unethical that is, or would they just keep BELIEVING how fair this is?

Cuddles .... If the JREF claims that they DON'T HAVE the application ... Which they do, at the address that I've sent it to ON THE APPLICATION ITSELF....... Then how would it show up on this Forum without a leak?

Translation: When I fail the challenge (and I will), I can claim it was because of the negative vibrations created by the leak.

 

[Myriad]

The Professor, if by any chance you're referring to my post on the thread in the MDC forum, I assure you no one leaked information to me. Do a Google search for "Lake Helen Florida Halloween Paranormal" (all obviously suggested by the information from the podcast) and you'll quickly find the links I posted and others like them.

Your own statements in the thread that the EVENT can only happen once per year and only at one specific PLACE made The Devil's Chair the most obvious possibility. Contacting George P. Colby by seance ran a very distant second due to no specific association with Halloween and being more associated with Cassadaga than Lake Helen. (My first thought for a paranormal event associated with Halloween and a specific place, naturally, was Houdini's grave, but I knew that was not in Florida.)

However, it appears that once the thread had been moved to the MDC Challenge forum, such speculation on my part (while perhaps not strictly against the rules) was out of place. I apologize to you and to the JREF for posting it inappropriately. I certainly had, and have, no wish to distract from the important matter at hand.

On the other hand, speaking now in general and even if I guessed wrong and am not the one who posted the "leaked" information -- when you publicly issue hints about a paranormal event to people for whom investigating paranormal claims is a hobby, expect some investigation to occur!

I look forward to the revelation of your actual claim, and to seeing the Challenge carried out.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[Loss Leader]

Would anyone here even see how Unethical that is, or would they just keep BELIEVING how fair this is?

TP, allow me to assume the following: 1) you sent information to the JREF which could not be guessed at otherwise; 2) the JREF shared that information with its "friends" before making it widely available to the public.

What ethic would that violate? How would it be unethical? What rule of conduct would the JREF have ignored?

 

[Cuddles]

TP, allow me to assume the following: 1) you sent information to the JREF which could not be guessed at otherwise; 2) the JREF shared that information with its "friends" before making it widely available to the public.

What ethic would that violate? How would it be unethical? What rule of conduct would the JREF have ignored?

I don't think you've got the assumptions quite right. In this case, it seems The Professor is claiming:
1) you sent information to the JREF which could not be guessed at otherwise;
2) you sent that information to lots of other people, including posting about it on various public internet sites;
3) the JREF also told a few people about it before making it publically available on one of the sites that The Professor has already posted it to.

Of course, even that's not actually reality, which is more like:
1) you sent information to the JREF which could not be guessed at otherwise;
2) you sent that information to lots of other people, including posting about it on various public internet sites;
3) the JREF still hasn't recieved said information and therefore has not had the chance to tell any friends about it.

 

[Bob Klase]

My question is ....
Does it even matter to you? If I show that information "IN MY OPINION" was LEAKED to a member of the forum or someone from the JREF pretending to be a member (In secret)..

Why not just show it instead of hiding behind hypothetical claims?

And why (apparently with no evidence even assuming your hypothetical leak happened) would your opinion be that it was leaked by someone at JREF? You're the one that's supposed to be open-minded (based on what you say on the podcast). Surely you're not suddenly so closed minded that you won't accept the possibility that someone's dead spirit guide gave them the information.

 

[chillzero]

My question is ....
Does it even matter to you?

It matters very much to me that the JREF behave in an ethical manner with regards to the challenge. If they do not, I want to see evidence.

If I show that information "IN MY OPINION" was LEAKED to a member of the forum or someone from the JREF pretending to be a member (In secret)..
Would anyone here even see how Unethical that is, or would they just keep BELIEVING how fair this is?

I definitely want to see this, and should it turn out to be proven, then no, I won't keep believing that the JREF are fully ethical and careful in their dealings with the challenge.
Please .... provide the evidence.

 

[Jackalgirl]

My question is ....
Does it even matter to you? If I show that information "IN MY OPINION" was LEAKED to a member of the forum or someone from the JREF pretending to be a member (In secret)..
Would anyone here even see how Unethical that is, or would they just keep BELIEVING how fair this is?

Cuddles .... If the JREF claims that they DON'T HAVE the application ... Which they do, at the address that I've sent it to ON THE APPLICATION ITSELF....... Then how would it show up on this Forum without a leak?

The only actual claim that I've seen show up on the Forum is the one that Bob Klause transcribed by your show. By "actual claim", I'm talking about a phrase that starts with "I, David Koenig, ...."

GuerrillaMagic also posted about your claim, by referencing both posts in the Magic Cafe and the show.

So if something else was leaked, I'd like to know the following:

1) What about the process is confidential?
2) Where was it leaked (link, please)? I'd like to see who this "secret" JREF employee is.

You're now claiming that the JREF is lying about your application. On what date, specifically, was your application marked as received? On what date, who told you that it had not been received?

The only person I have actually witnessed to have mentioned the status of your application is RemieV, who explained that she is not in the same location as the JREF and does not receive applications until they have been received by the head office and forwarded to her. So if you are suggesting that you hold, in your hand, a confirmation from the post office that the JREF received the physical envelope containing your application and that therefore it is RemieV who is lying because she says she doesn't have it yet, then your worries are over. RemieV is not in the same physical location as the JREF and will not receive your application until they have forwarded it to her.

Now, as to how long that process normally takes, I don't know. That'd be a question for RemieV (challenge@randi.org). She did already tell you that it takes some time, and that responses are not instantaneous. Remember, RemieV has other claims she's processing, including a very promising one from a young man named Pavel, and she's the only person working on the Challenge. So it's actually a rather slow process -- I'm really glad you got your claim in now, in August, rather than in October, because if you had submitted it later, you'd probably have missed your window of opportunity. I'm telling you, the protocol phase of the process can really eat up a chunk of time. Like, a whole year or more if the person involved is incapable of describing the claim.

If you are worried that the JREF is especially afraid of your claim and is singling you out for unfair treatment, let me assure you that I highly doubt that (for whatever my opinion is worth). Please give RemieV some time.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

My question is ....
Does it even matter to you? If I show that information "IN MY OPINION" was LEAKED to a member of the forum or someone from the JREF pretending to be a member (In secret)..
Would anyone here even see how Unethical that is, or would they just keep BELIEVING how fair this is?

Cuddles .... If the JREF claims that they DON'T HAVE the application ... Which they do, at the address that I've sent it to ON THE APPLICATION ITSELF....... Then how would it show up on this Forum without a leak?

Stop the innuendo and show what you got.

Then we'll talk.

 

[Moochie]

So far, there's been an awful lot of wind, and nothing of substance. I call SHENANIGAN!


M.

 

[often mrunderstood]

This is exactly the kind of applicants that makes me feel sorry for the JREF staff. Talk about a moving target.

+1 on the no test will happen, and Mr many names claims a huge victory.

The Million is safe.