JPs Boxcutter Derail thread

One other point is it took along time for the passengers to realize that it was a one-way trip.
If you think it’s going to be a “normal” hijacking you probably aren’t going to try and fight a “camel humping, oil swilling, murdering c**k-s**ker of a Muslim” with any kind of weapon.
Doubt it would be that way today.
 
I think what the Loosers forget was that pre 9-11, people were told to cooperate with hijackers. You couldn't do it again with box cutters today.

They aren't as deadly as some people here seem to be making out, because they can't stab. Unless they cut a major blood vessel near the surface, such as the ones in your neck, the wounds are superficial. I'd much rather face a box cutter than a knife if my life was on the line.
 
CptColumbo said:
BTW if you've ever been on a plane you'd know that any self defense moves would be very restricted. That's why people have to file out single file.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no kidding. When some of them say "I have martial arts training, so I'd kick them in the head". Part of me says that button mashing on your Xbox fighter games does not qualify as 'Martial Arts', and the other part comes up with this monolgue from our hero on the plane:

"Excuse me, sorry, uh...can I ge thro...Sorry, gotta go kick that guy in the head..sorry...Ow. Oh ggeez, didn't mean to pull your headrest back like this, gonna go kick that guy withthe boxcutter in the head..Oof, ouch, dangit! SOrry, but could you scoot, no?.. If I could get a couple of inches I can..aww geez, no...wait. I'm almost out.. No..hey.. can you wait a sec, gotta go kick that guy in the head.Oww. Steady. OK. Finally in the aisle! No I'll just go kic...AWW WHO LEFT THIS BEVERAGE CART HERE!"
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
They aren't as deadly as some people here seem to be making out, because they can't stab. Unless they cut a major blood vessel near the surface, such as the ones in your neck, the wounds are superficial. I'd much rather face a box cutter than a knife if my life was on the line.
Click to expand...

If they are the utility knives that Hunstman described then they can stab, as they extend, and because they can break off they would keep the wound open and bleeding. I also think that the pain from slashes would be significant, as the sharpness of the blade means it cuts deeper, causing more blood loss, and the sight of so much blood can be psychologically damaging if not physically.
 
Well, my reference is the picture of a knife from the Moussuni (sp?) trial, which depicted a utility-type knife.

If it were the small boxcutters, then likely they would not be deadly, but still painful...and I wouldn't face one down unless I already knew this was not a "normal" hostage situation.
 
here's a question this whole debate raised with me...i saw the film united 93 and i am wondering how accurate some of the basic information was...in the film they presented it as tho the terrorists made an inital surprise and very vicious attack, killing a few people by slashing their throats before they had time to realize what was happening. on top of that, on at least one of the flights they claimed they had a bomb (at least i am pretty certain that was the case). now, assuming none of that info is even correct, and in light of what others have said (in terms of how people responded to hijackings before 9/11), wouldnt it make sense that an initial surprise attack where blood was immediately shed, the passengers would be extremely frightened of trying to make any sudden moves? i just think it makes way too much sense to believe the opposite.
 
Last edited:
Just add my 2 cents real quick,

Yes, they are being hypocritical about the boxcutters. Absolutely. However, if that kid's Dad really did exactly what he said, I too say call the cops. The guy is probably unstable and maybe dangerous, you don't threaten your own kid like that. I have no tollerence for people who act like that.
 
I never knew what a boxcutter was until reading this thread!!
A stanley knife! I was getting boxcutters confused with boltcutters!
 
Laughing at boxcutters is probably the stupidest thing Avery has ever done, and that's saying something. Just consider:

(1) He's calling the victims on the hijacked planes cowards, which isn't going to sit too well with a lot of people.

(2) Boxcutters were in some cases the least of the victim's concerns, since on at least one plane they thought the hijackers had bombs.

(3) Before 9/11, the standard drill was cooperate with the hijackers.

And above all,

(4) He leaves himself open for some not-too-tightly-wrapped person who disagrees with him to come up brandishing a boxcutter and announce, "Laugh at this, sucker!" The resulting photos of Avery in soiled pants, on his knees begging for mercy, would probably stop the "truth" movement in its tracks.
 
I tested this today on the streets of Brooklyn by grabbing 10 people from behind and holding a boxcutter blade to their necks. Afterwards, all admitted to being extremely frightened.
 
Gravy said:
I tested this today on the streets of Brooklyn by grabbing 10 people from behind and holding a boxcutter blade to their necks. Afterwards, all admitted to being extremely frightened.
Click to expand...

Maybe its because you didn't dress up as a muslim extremist, also you weren't in an airplane, or claiming to have a bomb. I hear all that stuff really calms people down.

Oh, you also didn't kill anyone. I mean, its not even remotely similar.
 
Stellafane said:
Laughing at boxcutters is probably the stupidest thing Avery has ever done, and that's saying something. Just consider:

(1) He's calling the victims on the hijacked planes cowards, which isn't going to sit too well with a lot of people.

(2) Boxcutters were in some cases the least of the victim's concerns, since on at least one plane they thought the hijackers had bombs.

(3) Before 9/11, the standard drill was cooperate with the hijackers.

And above all,

(4) He leaves himself open for some not-too-tightly-wrapped person who disagrees with him to come up brandishing a boxcutter and announce, "Laugh at this, sucker!" The resulting photos of Avery in soiled pants, on his knees begging for mercy, would probably stop the "truth" movement in its tracks.
Click to expand...

I would add (3a) When it became clear that these were not normal hijackings, in fact the passengers DID revolt, risking injury and their lives to save others by overtaking the hijackers.

For the first three, there was no reasons the passengers could expect that overtaking the hijackers would ultimately be the best solution.
 
I'm a wood carver. I've cut myself with razor sharp knives many times. There is no pain at the time, it won't start for several minutes. But i don't like the sensation of the edge sticking in the bone- lots of friction there. While I have little use for utility knives because they are too wimpy, gangbangers used them because the short blades don't kill anybody- assault has lesser penalties than murder does. Terrorists would like them for their concealability, plus a few slashes with a sharp knife will make LOTS of blood, with it's emotional impact. Remember, their point was not to kill a couple passengers, but to cow a whole plane load. Didn't work on the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania, when passengers knew the trade off. Note that NONE of the OP's exhibits mentioned deaths.

Actually secure cockpits prevented hijackings better than the billions of passenger searchs.
 
Stellafane said:
Laughing at boxcutters is probably the stupidest thing Avery has ever done, and that's saying something. Just consider:
(1) He's calling the victims on the hijacked planes cowards, which isn't going to sit too well with a lot of people.
(2) Boxcutters were in some cases the least of the victim's concerns, since on at least one plane they thought the hijackers had bombs.
(3) Before 9/11, the standard drill was cooperate with the hijackers.
And above all,
(4) He leaves himself open for some not-too-tightly-wrapped person who disagrees with him to come up brandishing a boxcutter and announce, "Laugh at this, sucker!" The resulting photos of Avery in soiled pants, on his knees begging for mercy, would probably stop the "truth" movement in its tracks.
Click to expand...

This article is a good summary of the 9/11 Commission Report's findings about the weapons the hijackers were believed to have, as well as the passenger phone calls made.

Flight 11
Sweeney calmly reported on her line that the plane had been hijacked; a man in first class had his throat slashed; two flight attendants had been stabbed - one was seriously hurt and was on oxygen while the other's wounds seemed minor; a doctor had been requested; the flight attendants were unable to contact the cockpit; and there was a bomb in the cockpit...

Flight 175
They used knives (as reported by two passengers and a flight attendant), Mace (reported by one passenger), and the threat of a bomb (reported by the same passenger).

They stabbed members of the flight crew (reported by a flight attendant and one passenger).

Both pilots had been killed (reported by one flight attendant)...

At 0900, Lee Hanson received a second call from his son Peter: "It's getting bad, Dad - a stewardess was stabbed - they seem to have knives and Mace - they said they have a bomb -

Flight 77
The hijackers used knives (reported by one passenger) and moved all the passengers (and possibly crew) to the rear of the aircraft (reported by one flight attendant and one passenger)...

At some point between 0916 and 0926, Barbara Olson called her husband, Ted Olson, the solicitor general of the United States.She reported that the flight had been hijacked, and the hijackers had knives and box cutters... About a minute into the conversation, the call was cut off.

Flight 93
At 0932, a hijacker, probably Jarrah, made or attempted to make the following announcement to the passengers of Flight 93: "Ladies and Gentlemen: Here the captain, please sit down keep remaining sitting. We have a bomb on board. So, sit." (More about flight 93 below.)
Click to expand...
From the 9/11 Commission Report, footnote 82 to chapter 1:
The FBI collected 14 knives or portions of knives at the Flight 93 crash site. FBI report, “Knives Found at the UA Flight 93 Crash Site,” undated.
Click to expand...

Flight 93 Phone Call Summary None of these calls happened, according to Avery, Fetzer et al.
At least two callers from the flight reported that the hijackers knew that passengers were making calls but did not seem to care... It might not have occurred to him that they were certain to learn what had happened in New York, thereby defeating his attempts at deception.

At least 10 passengers and two crew members shared vital information with family, friends, colleagues, or others on the ground. All understood the plane had been hijacked.

They said the hijackers wielded knives and claimed to have a bomb.
The hijackers were wearing red bandanas, and they forced the passengers to the back of the aircraft.

Callers reported that a passenger had been stabbed and that two people were lying on the floor of the cabin, injured or dead - possibly the captain and first officer.

One caller reported that a flight attendant had been killed...

During at least five of the passengers' phone calls, information was shared about the attacks that had occurred earlier that morning at the World Trade Center.

Five calls described the intent of passengers and surviving crew members to revolt against the hijackers.

According to one call, they voted on whether to rush the terrorists in an attempt to retake the plane.

They decided, and acted.
Click to expand...
 
bob_kark said:
Maybe its because you didn't dress up as a muslim extremist, also you weren't in an airplane, or claiming to have a bomb. I hear all that stuff really calms people down.
Click to expand...
Some people did comment that they found my red bandanna to have a soothing effect.

Oh, you also didn't kill anyone. I mean, its not even remotely similar.
Click to expand...
I admit that's a flaw in my protocol. I've been Googling to find a country where it's legal to kill strangers for science, but no luck so far. My next plan it to take Ken Dewdney of the 9/11 Scholars for Truth on four flights over London, Ontario in a Cessna 172. I will attack him at 2,000, 4,000, and 8,000 feet, and will then extrapolate how frightened he would be if the attack took place at 32,000 feet. I'm going to call it "Operation BM."
 
XXX said:
Just add my 2 cents real quick,

Yes, they are being hypocritical about the boxcutters. Absolutely. However, if that kid's Dad really did exactly what he said, I too say call the cops. The guy is probably unstable and maybe dangerous, you don't threaten your own kid like that. I have no tollerence for people who act like that.
Click to expand...

From reading the whole of the kids post, it sounded as if he was heavily into the whole truth movement and it was affecting his relationship with his father, because his father seems to give a damn about the truth. I admit grabbing him by the collar and waving a knife at him does seem to be very reckless, but I think his father was more making a "you don't have a clue" point, rather than threatening him.

But saying that, I don't condone violence in any form. Well apart from some people who I'd really like to smack in the mouth, but luckily for them I have the patience of a saint.
 
Azrael 5 said:
I never knew what a boxcutter was until reading this thread!!
A stanley knife! I was getting boxcutters confused with boltcutters!
Click to expand...
Yeah, I never gave it much thought (or I would have realized how ludicrous it was; at least as ludicrous as boltcutters) but I was thinking of those things with the recessed blades that you used to cut packing wire for quite a long time. It took me a while to realize that they meant Stanley knives. I think I'd go up against the former (at a push), but it'd take something to make me take on the latter unnecessarily.

Cheers,
Rat.
 
Johnny Pixels said:
I've made a separate thread to avoid derailing the Loose Change part III one. This all revolves around the dangerousness (or maybe the dangertivity) of boxcutters.
Click to expand...

I got into a debate with a guy about this a few days after 9/11. Basically it appears that people think knives/sharp things only hurt people by stabbing them, and that arteries are really deep in the body.

Slashing is way more dangerous than stabbing and there are a number of arteries close to the skin that even fairly shallow slashes can cut.

Just look at the number of suicides by slashing the wrists. And that's slower than the artery in the neck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom