Israels Universal Healthcare

[Rolfe]

Well, it seems straighforward. Israel has a universal healthcare system very similar to several European countries. Just the sort of thing that's being damned to hell as evil socialism when the subject is US healthcare.

The USA gives Israel a lot of money, and this money is clearly supporting the healthcare system.

Why?

Rolfe.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

This was in response to my citing Rolfe's assessment of the Israeli healthcare system:

I wouldn't take a German's assumptions on American politics as read,

I believe several people have brought up the problem of confusing Israel for a U.S. state.

On the other point, I could also cite examples of the U.S. (led by conservatives) vetoing censure and criticism of Israel in the U.N. in contradiction of broad international consensus. Unfortunately, I'm on my way out the door at the moment.

 

[Rolfe]

Well, I imagine he could tell you a fair bit about how the Israeli healthcare system works, because it's very similar to the system in Germany.

The rest of his question just seems to be, why is the US right wing OK about funding this, when it has described this sort of system as "evil" and "socialist" (which seems to be a derogatory term for reasons I don't entirely understand), and even "nazi".

Rolfe.

 

[DC]

I wouldn't take a German's assumptions on American politics as read, especially when that particular German has shown time and again to have an anti-Israel bias.

If he has evidence, he should show it.

so also not from any other GERMAN! but especially not THAT GERMAN?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Why don't you let Oliver do it? It's his argument.

What difference does it make who provides the evidence you're asking for?

I want to know how he knows all the way from his Bavarian basement about American affairs.

Same way I, living in the heartland of American know about this--Google.

Here's a huge listing of UN resolutions critical of Israel that were vetoed by the U.S. Note the votes on these things. They're almost all some number to 1 (the U.S.'s veto vote).

 

[Oliver]

I wouldn't take a German's assumptions on American politics as read, especially when that particular German has shown time and again to have an anti-Israel bias.

If he has evidence, he should show it.

While I'm in support for a lasting peace in Israel for it's survival in a long run, which means that I don't support any peace-harming political decisions, what evidence are you talking about - evidence for what claim?

Israel has a universal healthcare system very similar to several European countries. Just the sort of thing that's being damned to hell as evil socialism when the subject is US healthcare.

Exactly, that's my point. And my "evidence" are the republicans whining about "Pardalis social/communist trash health care system".

Why don't you let Oliver do it? It's his argument.

I want to know how he knows all the way from his Bavarian basement about American affairs.

I should report you for calling me a Bavarian.

 

[ddt]

I wouldn't take a German's assumptions on American politics as read, especially when that particular German has shown time and again to have an anti-Israel bias.

Don't you think this heavily over the top? Taking into account your lack of participation in the health care debate on this forum, what is your knowledge on this? And your "Bavarian" comment is an obvious attempt at insult.

I think Oliver has a very good point in his OP, even if it only were for the wit. If there's one UHC country in the world where America has the obvious possibility of influencing it - due to the massive US subsidies - it is Israel. But we never hear about that.

 

[Tricky]

A few posts split to AAH for off topic, mostly for discussing other members rather than the topic. Please don't do that. It's unamerican.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Well, I suspect the same reason, but what bad things could happen to Liberals for bringing it up - I mean in a political context? Sure, the debate might go somewhat off-topic, but all the ridiculous comparisons by Conservatives about the hair-raising Canadian and British systems would vanish.

It could be that no one's thought to make this point in the healthcare debate. (And actually at this point the best we can hope for is health insurance reform with a public health insurance option, and nothing like a single-payer system or a true public healthcare system. So discussion of the systems in Canada or the UK or Israel really aren't what the current debate is limited to in the U.S.)

On the other hand, I think the reluctance to bring this up is the same sort of thing that leads to politicians walking on eggshells when they need to criticize Israel. Even relatively liberal Democrats who are trying to offer criticism seem to be required to repeat that Israel is our friend and we have no greater ally and such.

 

[Pardalis]

I think Oliver has a very good point in his OP, even if it only were for the wit.

The OP is all unsubstanciated assumptions.

If there's one UHC country in the world where America has the obvious possibility of influencing it - due to the massive US subsidies - it is Israel.

Maybe it's because the US respects Israel's sovereignty? Why would it care to influence Israel's internal healthcare system?

But we never hear about that.

Yes, we all know it's a great conspiracy.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

The OP is all unsubstanciated [sic] assumptions.

Name one.

People have indeed compared Obama's proposals to Nazism.

People have claimed that Obama's proposals (and the healthcare systems of places like Canada and the UK) are "socialism" or somehow contrary to American ideals.

Israel does indeed have a socialized healthcare system.

Maybe it's because the US respects Israel's sovereignty? Why would it care to influence Israel's internal healthcare system?

Because we give more aid to Israel than any other country, despite the fact that they're not a developing or 3rd world country. The fact is, we do influence their healthcare system--we provide some 3% of their national budget.

Yes, we all know it's a great conspiracy.

What are you talking about? He's pointing to a flaw in an argument against proposed healthcare reforms, not any kind of conspiracy. That's an obvious straw man you've constructed.

 

[Oliver]

What are you talking about? He's pointing to a flaw in an argument against proposed healthcare reforms, not any kind of conspiracy. That's an obvious straw man you've constructed.

Pardalis?