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Merged Is no one concerned that Gov. Paul LePage is crazy?

Unabogie

Philosopher
Unabogie
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
9,692
Location
Portland, OR
Like, seriously around the bend nutso?

http://thetippingpoint.bangordailyn...with-encouraged-sovereign-citizen-extremists/

The central topic of conversation for most of the meetings was the sovereigns’ “remonstrances,” documents they said gave them the authority to arrest and execute Maine House Speaker Mark Eves and Senate President Justin Alfond for treason (listen to minute 19 of the recording below for a specific discussion of this).

LePage indulged and supported the sovereign’s beliefs. He allowed them to present a number of conspiracy theories, told them he agreed with their interpretation of state law, promised to publicize their beliefs, discussed with them the arrest and hanging of Eves and Alfond and brought in Sheriff Randall Liberty to pursue their case, among other actions (for complete context of this incident, see the full excerpt).

LePage also publicly endorsed several specific Sovereign Citizen beliefs that they had discussed, including that the federal government was acting like the Nazi state, that wind power is a hoax and that the county sheriff is the highest law enforcement official. He also introduced conspiracy theorist author Michael Coffman at an event at Lake Region High School and sat by as Coffman claimed that local sustainability initiatives were a United Nations plot and that “Barack Obama’s presidency is part of a plan by the Islamic Brotherhood to turn America into an Islamic controlled nation,” according to the Bridgton News.
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:jaw-dropp
 
US state governor meets with domestic terrorist sovcit group

Paul LePage, the Republican governor of Maine, has met repeatedly for with members of a militia movement labelled as domestic terrorists by the FBI.


The Sovereign Citizens group, also known as the Constitutional Coalition, has claimed that Sandy Hook was a "false flag" operation to help enable a "holocaust against America’s Christian population". It calls any currency besides gold and silver "unconstitutional". Despite these claims, the group had requested a number of meetings with LePage in the past and had always been ignored by his staff. But once LePage found out that they wanted to meet with him, he went out of his way to set up a total of eight meetings.


At the first meeting, LePage and members of the group discussed a range of topics, including a joint United Nations-Rockefeller plot to take over Maine’s North Woods. Most disturbing was the group’s push to have two top Democrats in the legislature, the House speaker and Senate president, arrested for "high treason". In response, LePage then apparently said "they’re talking about hanging them".


LePage apparently helped the Sovereign Citizens in their effort to make this happen by trying to enlist a county sheriff to intervene with the state attorney general. After that failed, they talked to LePage about setting up special "common law" courts to try the Democrats, since, in their opinion, current state courts were illegitimate because they practice admiralty law (this is proven by gold fringe on flags in the courtroom).


More here.
 
◊◊◊◊, I just started a thread on this. I'll request a merge.
 
So....Why is this loon not being impeached or recalled?

We get occasional bulletins on the various Soveriegn Citizen groups; they generally are seriously down on law enforcement. There have been a number of incidents and people have been killed.
I don't have any idea how many people are actually involved in this; it seems to appeal to a particular brand of conspiracy-theory loon.
 
theprestige said:
Is no one concerned that Gov. Paul LePage is crazy?

Not me. But it sounds like the people of Maine might have something to think about.
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Oddly enough, I happen to completely agree with theprestige on a political issue. I guess the apocalypse really is nigh.
 
cwalner said:
Oddly enough, I happen to completely agree with theprestige on a political issue. I guess the apocalypse really is nigh.
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I'm not sure I understand your and his apathy on this. We have a high elected official who believes in the Sovereign Citizens crazy. And not just that, he's openly discussing the execution of his political rivals. This from the governor of a state (and let's not forget that conservatives are supposed to think state politics are superior to federal politics)! This is not a minor party apparatchik we're talking about here. There are never guarantees that our system of peaceful politics will continue into the future, and introducing violence into the system (even just discussing it) is a sure way to push things into chaos.

The biggest problem with the Tea Party madness is that allegedly sane conservatives keep shrugging their shoulders at the crazy instead of deciding to openly oppose it.
 
Unabogie said:
I'm not sure I understand your and his apathy on this. We have a high elected official who believes in the Sovereign Citizens crazy. And not just that, he's openly discussing the execution of his political rivals. This from the governor of a state (and let's not forget that conservatives are supposed to think state politics are superior to federal politics)! This is not a minor party apparatchik we're talking about here. There are never guarantees that our system of peaceful politics will continue into the future, and introducing violence into the system (even just discussing it) is a sure way to push things into chaos.

The biggest problem with the Tea Party madness is that allegedly sane conservatives keep shrugging their shoulders at the crazy instead of deciding to openly oppose it.
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At the end of the day, we're all Americans. If you really think the sky is falling in Maine, put aside your partisan rivalry, go to Maine, and prop it up.

Me? The reason I like state politics more than federal politics is that it confines outbursts of craziness to smaller regions, with less chance of spillover. It also keeps the craziness much closer to the voters, where the voices of individual citizens can be heard more clearly, and their votes carry more power.

I think all government is a necessary. I'd prefer to keep the evil as local and constrained as possible. I'd like to keep it as close to the people it governs as possible, to increase their chances of mitigating the evil and doing some good.

With federal politics, even a mild, debatable, or downright infinitesimal spasm of craziness has unintended consequences on the lives of millions of people. And most of those people will never have more than an infinitesimal influence on this.

So when I get word that the governor of Maine seems crazy, my feeling is, thank god it's confined to Maine. I'm confident the people of Maine are perfectly capable of lying in the bed they've made for themselves. Or stripping the sheets, flipping the mattress, and giving the whole thing a thorough airing-out, if that's their preference.

Your concern for the Republican party is touching. Your concern for the nation, couched as it is in the language of partisan gotchas, rings somewhat hollow.

You don't have to understand my apathy to take action yourself, if you believe there's action that should be taken. So, by all means, have at it.
 
I'm losing track of all the Wingnut Governors who are too corrupt/crazy/stupid to hold office. McDonnell, Walker, Christie, Scott, LePage, Jindal... am I missing any?

ETA: Oh geez, how did I miss the one who hits all three categories, Governor Yosemite Sam of Texas?
 
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theprestige said:
Your concern for the Republican party is touching. Your concern for the nation, couched as it is in the language of partisan gotchas, rings somewhat hollow.

You don't have to understand my apathy to take action yourself, if you believe there's action that should be taken. So, by all means, have at it.
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You've just illustrated the problem perfectly. I have no concern for the Republican party. I have a concern for sane and peaceful politics regardless of party. But when I criticize the Republicans, you wave it off as insincere. Hell, you even wave off my concern for the nation, as if I don't care about my country as much as you do. The same will be said about any liberal who speaks out against craziness like the Tea Party and the Sovereign Citizens. But if conservatives speak out it carries far more weight. And if enough of them speak out, the tide could be turned and the GOP could stop courting these nihilistic crazy people and start rebuilding a functioning party, which means a functioning government, which is what I do care about.
 
Unabogie said:
I'm not sure I understand your and his apathy on this. We have a high elected official who believes in the Sovereign Citizens crazy. And not just that, he's openly discussing the execution of his political rivals. This from the governor of a state (and let's not forget that conservatives are supposed to think state politics are superior to federal politics)! This is not a minor party apparatchik we're talking about here. There are never guarantees that our system of peaceful politics will continue into the future, and introducing violence into the system (even just discussing it) is a sure way to push things into chaos.

The biggest problem with the Tea Party madness is that allegedly sane conservatives keep shrugging their shoulders at the crazy instead of deciding to openly oppose it.
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The reason I don't care is that before this thread, I had never heard of Paul LePage. Just reading the OP, I had no idea what state he was governor of (I only know it wasn't mine).

In short, his influence is so minimal outside his own state that I really could not care. However, I agreed with theprestige that I would and should feel differently about him if he were governor of my state (Mike Pence of IN) or actually had a voice on the national stage (like Rick Perry of TX).

Mind you, I do have some serious issues with my governor as he is quite conservative and I am liberal, but I would not expect non-Hoosiers to give a rat's fart about him. The only reason the nation paid any attention to Mitch Daniels is that he was considered a potential nominee for POTUS until he decided not to run.
 
cwalner said:
The reason I don't care is that before this thread, I had never heard of Paul LePage. Just reading the OP, I had no idea what state he was governor of (I only know it wasn't mine).

In short, his influence is so minimal outside his own state that I really could not care. However, I agreed with theprestige that I would and should feel differently about him if he were governor of my state (Mike Pence of IN) or actually had a voice on the national stage (like Rick Perry of TX).

Mind you, I do have some serious issues with my governor as he is quite conservative and I am liberal, but I would not expect non-Hoosiers to give a rat's fart about him. The only reason the nation paid any attention to Mitch Daniels is that he was considered a potential nominee for POTUS until he decided not to run.
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By that same logic we shouldn't care about the Ugandan policies against gay people. After all, it has minimal influence outside its own geographical area. It's not like it's my state we're talking about, right?
 
Unabogie said:
By that same logic we shouldn't care about the Ugandan policies against gay people. After all, it has minimal influence outside its own geographical area. It's not like it's my state we're talking about, right?
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The thing is the Ugandan law will effect people. Individual elected officials can have limited power. Look at Toronto's crack smoking mayor.

It looks bad but I will wait until he does something more first.
 
ponderingturtle said:
The thing is the Ugandan law will effect people. Individual elected officials can have limited power. Look at Toronto's crack smoking mayor.

It looks bad but I will wait until he does something more first.
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Crack smoking mayors aren't about to turn mainstream. The SC movement is picking up a lot of momentum on the right. It's not just the idea that LePage wants to literally execute his political rivals. It's that the whole "nullify" movement threatens our national unity in a serious way. I don't think the two situations are at all analogous.
 
ponderingturtle said:
The thing is the Ugandan law will effect people. Individual elected officials can have limited power. Look at Toronto's crack smoking mayor.
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The reason Mr. Ford has limited power now is because nearly all of his mayoral powers were stripped from him by city council as a result of Ford's, ah, issues. Council lacked the authority to completely remove him from office, otherwise it probably would have done that.
 
Unabogie said:
The biggest problem with the Tea Party madness is that allegedly sane conservatives keep shrugging their shoulders at the crazy instead of deciding to openly oppose it.
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Bingo!

Worse, many seem to actually defend, rationalize and take the role of apologist for the whackadoodleness. Often this is shrouded with a lot of "who cares, nothing to see, move along," type downplay. And yet, many of these same "couldn't be bothered to care" about the lunacy of some elected representatives of the party they share seem quick to join in any attack on reasonable compromise, reaching across the aisle and working with other perspectives to govern, or any tendency to support policies that originated as Republican proposals but were enacted by mostly Democratic votes due to hyperpartisan intransigency.

It seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy when people who refuse to govern talk about the failures of governance to succeed and produce good governance results.
 
You have to dig a bit to figure out this stuff:

As McCarthy later revealed....
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“I never said it, but the governor said it. I never opened my mouth and said the word,” explained McCarthy. “The governor looked at us and looked at his buddy and said, ‘They’re talking about hanging them.’” (The “buddy” was apparently a member of LePage’s legal staff.)

According to McCarthy, at another point in the conversation, when discussing federal funding, LePage said, “If I go any further with this bill, with this refusal to accept federal money, they will surround this building and kill me.”
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According to McCarthy... well,

McCarthy and Martin are two men with a cause. They believe they have access to truths that few others know or want to hear, primarily that the American government is illegitimate and that the shadowy cabal of elites who control it are preparing for a war on the American people. The 9/11 attacks, the Boston bombing, most mass shootings, and a wide range of other events generally attributed to terrorists and criminals are actually false-flag operations perpetrated by the American government against its own people as part of a ramp-up to a final reckoning, according to the hosts.
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So now what we have is that the source of the lurid claims is an Alex Jones wannabe and a 9-11 Truther crank. And if you read the article very carefully, you will find lots of "evidence" of that type. For example:

In that meeting, the participants also again discussed the Maine Criminal Justice Academy’s Sovereign Citizen curriculum, and they asked about the role of the governor and the sheriff in the event of an attempt by the federal government, through the Federal Emergency Management Agency, to institute martial law and bring in Russian troops to invade the state.

“They’re going to have to get by me first,” replied LePage, according to Merletti.
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According to Merletti?

An e-mail sent to the governor’s office by Constitutional Coalition spokesperson Phil Merletti, along with the remonstrance document, declared that legislators who had violated their oaths in this way were committing treason and domestic terrorism. He suggested that they listen to the Aroostook Watchmen radio show for more information.
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Yet another crank.

So overall what we have is a bunch of cranks claiming that a sitting governor agrees with them. If he does, I have no hesitation in agreeing that he's a crackpot. But so far the source for the story seems a little less than credible.
 
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