Interview with former FBI agent Mark Rossini

[ProBonoShill]

I just read over the first part of Mark Rossini's answers to Undicisettembre.

First I have been on the phone with Mark, and had a preliminary conversation with him over what had happened that had allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place. Unfortunately I did not have enough time to go over every detail of what had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place. Second, while his account of his interaction with CIA agents at the bin Laden unit at the CIA with respect to Tom Wilshire blocking FBI Agent Dog Miller's cable on Mihdhar back to the FBI is accurate, some of his other accounts have errors. One example is his account of the June 11 2001 meeting at the New York FBI field office. This was the meeting set up by FBI Agent Dina Corsi, between her, CIA officer Clarke Shannon, FBI Agent Margaret Gillespie, working with Shannon at the CIA bin Laden unit, and FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team of Cole bombing investigators.


"CIA/CTC representatives, along with an FBIHQ analyst, came up to FBI NY on or about June 11, 2001 and had a meeting (which I was not invited to) with my assigned squad, I-49, and requested help in finding the terrorists who attended the terror summit in Malaysia."

I don’t know where Mark came up with CIA/CTC representatives, along with an FBIHQ analyst requested help in finding the terrorists who attended the terror summit in Malaysia. There is not the slightest evidence or record anywhere that the CIA agents and FBI HQs’ agents at this meeting “ever requested any help in finding the terrorists” who had attended the terror summit in Malaysia. There are in fact three records of this meeting, the Joint Inquiry of the House and the Senate, the account in the DOJ IG report and the account in Lawrence Wright’s, Looming Tower, and in the July 10-17, 2006 issue of the New Yorker, “The Agent who almost stopped the attacks on 9/11”, Ali Soufan, who was FBI Agent Steve Bongardt's boss.

At the September 20, 2002, public hearing of the Joint Inquiry of the House and the Senate, Senator Carl Levin, asked CIA Officer Tom Wilshire, who was hidden behind a screen so no one could later identify him, why CIA Officer Clarke Shannon, who was at that June 11, 2001, meeting in New York City with FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, did not give the information he had on Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, to Bongardt. Bongardt in fact was hiding behind another screen at that same meeting, also answering questions. Senator Levin stated that he knew of no law, no rule, no regulations that prevented Shannon from giving the information he had to Bongardt, even after Bongardt directly asked Shannon, who are these people, in the three photos from Kuala Lumpur, and why are you, the CIA surveilling them. And what have these people got to do with the Cole bombing, since Bongardt was part of the FBI Cole bombing investigation, and why were you, the CIA asking us, the FBI Cole bombing investigators, if we recognize any of these people in these photos.

At the time of this meeting the CIA knew that al Qaeda terrorist, Nawaf al-Hazmi was already inside of the US, knew al Qaeda terrorist, Khalid al-Mihdhar had a multi-entry visa for the US and knew a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was likely aimed right at the US. Tom Wilshire answered Senator Levin’s question, as to why CIA officer Clarke Shannon did not give the information he had to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt. Wilshire stated that first this information could not be given to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt or his team unless this meeting had been specifically set up to pass this information to the FBI, and second Shannon could not pass this information to the FBI without prior permission from the CIA which he did not have. In effect, Wilshire had just admitted that the CIA had withheld material information in a criminal conspiracy, from the FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. Wilshire, admitted that the CIA had just committed in fact a major Federal criminal felony. No law allows even the CIA from committing this major Federal felony, yet no one was indicted for this horrific crime, a crime which in fact had hidden information from the FBI that ultimately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people.

Rossini continues with:

“And "Moreover, in the aforementioned meeting (attended by CIA, and the FBI’s Dina Corsi), the CIA would not tell the assembled FBI agents, nor then AUSA Dave Kelly (who left the meeting early due to the hostile atmosphere), why finding these men was so important (hence SA Steve Bongardt’s famous email to Corsi, wherein he warns her of the consequences that “—someday someone will die—"). Dina did not know at all about the recruitment effort. Dina just knew that the methodology by which the CIA knew about these terrorists was via an “intelligence method” (which Dina erroneously and innocently thought was protected then by the “wall”)."

This paragraph has several errors. First Bongardt’s quote that “—someday someone will die—“, had nothing to do with this meeting but was in email Bongardt sent back to Corsi on August 29, 2001, after she had claimed that the NSLU had told her, that New York agent Steve Bongardt, could have nothing to do with any investigation of Mihdhar, finally shutting down his criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. This was a complete lie, in fact the NSLU attorney that Corsi had consulted, Sherri Sabol, told Corsi on August 28, 2001, that since the NSA cable in her EC to start an investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi had no connection to any FISA warrant, Bongardt could start or take part in any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi that he wanted. Further more, Corsi had already been been given approval by the NSA, to pass this NSA cable, to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt on August 27, 2001, a fact that Corsi withheld from Attorney Sherri Sabol.

Further, when Rossini states that “Dina just knew that the methodology by which the CIA knew about these terrorists was via an “intelligence method” (which Dina erroneously and innocently thought was protected then by the “wall”)." this is also in error. On August 29, 2001, Corsi in email to Steve Bongardt stated that “if at such time as evidence is developed of a substantial Federal crime [by Mihdhar and Hazmi], that evidence will be passed over the wall per the proper procedures for follow up criminal investigation [by your FBI criminal investigators].

But Corsi admitted to DOJ IG investigators that she knew on August 22, 2001 , according to the DOJ IG report, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, knew that this was in fact a substantial Federal crime, and even knew that both the CIA and FBI HQ’s were keeping this horrific information secret from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team of Cole bombing investigators so they would not have the probable caused they needed and in fact required to start any criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. There was nothing innocent at all about Corsi. She along with the top CIA managers and many people at FBI HQ’s had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people on 9/11.

Rossini goes on to say that:, “Lastly, when the Deputy Chief of Alec Station was interviewed by the 9/11 Commission on live TV (their identity was hidden by a curtain), the Deputy Chief was asked “Why was the FBI not informed?” The Deputy Chief’s emotional response was “we were so overwhelmed, it just fell through the cracks.””

This interview was at the September 20, 2002 public hearing of the Joint Inquiry Committee not the 9/11 Commission public hearings. Tom Wilshire’s statement that “we were so overwhelmed, it [telling the FBI about Mihdhar and Hazmi], just fell through the cracks.” is asinine at best since the CIA was only tracking 3 al Qaeda terrorists, Khalid al-Mihdhar, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Salem al-Hazmi. On August 21, 2001, when the CIA and FBI HQ’s, in fact Tom Wilshire himself, found out that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, they all knew they were here in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack that would murder thousands of Americans. So what did CIA officer Tom Wilshire do with this information. He ordered Dina Corsi and her boss Rod Middleton to shut down Steve Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi after Bongardt also found out that these two al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US, when he, Corsi and Middleton all knew this would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to murder thousands of Americans.

I see, so you apparently believe almost 3000 people were murdered in cold blood, but yet couldn't spare the time to speak in depth to one of the people you claim proves your case? No wonder the truth movement is dead.

Please show where in your post it proves the US government intentionally murdered it's own citizens and those of many other countries. Please note the bolded.

I'll wait.

 

[beachnut]

a precognition spam attack with fake conclusion

... Corsi and Middleton all knew this would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to murder thousands of Americans.

BS conclusion. Total BS, aka extreme BS. How do you make up these conclusion, they did not KNOW.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Wilshire stated that first this information could not be given to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt or his team unless this meeting had been specifically set up to pass this information to the FBI, and second Shannon could not pass this information to the FBI without prior permission from the CIA which he did not have. In effect, Wilshire had just admitted that the CIA had withheld material information in a criminal conspiracy, from the FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. Wilshire, admitted that the CIA had just committed in fact a major Federal criminal felony.

No, that is- as usual- your interpretation of what was said. He actually said no such thing: he said what you quoted him saying, not the stuff you added on afterwards.

But Corsi admitted to DOJ IG investigators that she knew on August 22, 2001 , according to the DOJ IG report, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, knew that this was in fact a substantial Federal crime, and even knew that both the CIA and FBI HQ’s were keeping this horrific information secret from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team of Cole bombing investigators so they would not have the probable caused they needed and in fact required to start any criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. There was nothing innocent at all about Corsi. She along with the top CIA managers and many people at FBI HQ’s had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people on 9/11.

Again, this is merely your assertion of what you think happened. It is not supported by any quotes in your post.

He ordered Dina Corsi and her boss Rod Middleton to shut down Steve Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi after Bongardt also found out that these two al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US, when he, Corsi and Middleton all knew this would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to murder thousands of Americans.

Same again. Unsupported assertion. Please provide evidence that they knew this, and that this was the reason they "shut down" the investigation.

 

[Oystein]

I just read over the first part of Mark Rossini's answers to Undicisettembre.

First I have been on the phone with Mark, and had a preliminary conversation with him over what had happened that had allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place. Unfortunately I did not have enough time to go over every detail of what had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place.

Second, while his account of his interaction with CIA agents at the bin Laden unit at the CIA with respect to Tom Wilshire blocking FBI Agent Dog Miller's cable on Mihdhar back to the FBI is accurate, some of his other accounts have errors. ...

Thanks for the detailed reply. This is all too much information for me to process at this time for me (not my field of interest so far), but I'll feed it back to the undicisettembre guys (i.e. send them a link to your post).

 

[paloalto]

I see, so you apparently believe almost 3000 people were murdered in cold blood....

Please show where in your post it proves the US government intentionally murdered it's own citizens and those of many other countries. Please note the bolded.

I'll wait.

I already have in the many posts to this forum Not only have my prior posts proved beyond any reasonable doubt, but almost all of this information comes right from the many official US government reports from the investigations on 9/11. I have even posted the exact report name and even the exact page number in each where this information and proof is found.

But your statement is not correct. These people in the US government did not intentionally murder its own citizens and those of many other countries, it intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to do this by shutting down all FBI investigations that could have stopped this attack and prevented the murders of almost 3000 people on 9/11. This proof is not only iron clad but absolutely no one on this forum has ever been able to refute any part of this information in any way. Please note the bolded.

 

[DGM]

I already have in the many posts to this forum Not only have my prior posts proved beyond any reasonable doubt, but almost all of this information comes right from the many official US government reports from the investigations on 9/11. I have even posted the exact report name and even the exact page number in each where this information and proof is found.

But your statement is not correct. These people in the US government did not intentionally murder its own citizens and those of many other countries, it intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to do this by shutting down all FBI investigations that could have stopped this attack and prevented the murders of almost 3000 people on 9/11. This proof is not only iron clad but absolutely no one on this forum has ever been able to refute any part of this information in any way. Please note the bolded.

This is where you go astray. Can you show with something other then your opinion that this was their intent with their actions?

Nothing you have posted to date proves this. The investigation that you got most of your information from didn't.

 

[beachnut]

I already have in the many posts to this forum Not only have my prior posts proved beyond any reasonable doubt, but almost all of this information comes right from the many official US government reports from the investigations on 9/11. I have even posted the exact report name and even the exact page number in each where this information and proof is found.

But your statement is not correct. These people in the US government did not intentionally murder its own citizens and those of many other countries, it intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to do this by shutting down all FBI investigations that could have stopped this attack and prevented the murders of almost 3000 people on 9/11. This proof is not only iron clad but absolutely no one on this forum has ever been able to refute any part of this information in any way. Please note the bolded.

it intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to do this

This is false, you made it up. BS flag waves high on this.

... what did CIA officer Tom Wilshire do with this information. He ordered Dina Corsi and her boss Rod Middleton to shut down Steve Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi after Bongardt also found out that these two al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US, when he, Corsi and Middleton all knew this would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to murder thousands of Americans.

This is false, they did not know, you made this up.

 

[JSanderO]

Intel is supposed to figure out stuff that is going to happen. In the case of terrorism it is believed that all manner of planning takes place... and this makes sense for large complex operations. Plantig an IED would be hard to prevent because it could be "planned" in a very ad hoc way...

The Cole attack was not a very complex operation... get an inflatable, a couple of suicide fanatics... make a few bombs and drive it into a Navy ship which seem to use the harbor.

9/11 seems orders of magnitude more complex. But the elements of planning were simple. Look up the flight schedules to find early AM trans-continental flights originating in the north east. Easy peasy.... there are dozens to choose from. You can even know the type of plane used.

Security at airports at the time was rather lax.. We hadn't seen any plane hijackings in years and the history of them was to demand a prisoner release or similar.

Hijacking a plane with several thugs armed with knives or guns seems not very difficult especially when you can brutally kill a few passengers or crew and intimidate the remaining passengers and crew on board. This sort of thuggery doesn't take much planning. It could happen on a buss, a train also.

Flying the planes seems to be the part that requires some skill. Many claim that these jerks could not have had the skills to pilot the planes we saw. Others claim this flying is much less difficult that take off and landing... the former of course was done by the air line pilots and there was no intent to land.

Navigation to the targets was not difficult either under the conditions. The date could have simply been chosen based on 14 day weather forecasts. September historically is mild weather absent a hurricane and they move up from the ITZ at the equator.

At the the elevations where the planes were hijacked it was easy to fly visually. Flight originating a LOgan bound for LA set out on a westward course... passing Providence, Narragansett Bay and you can see LI to the south... which has at its western end Manhatten with the towers visible from probably more than 75 miles out at flying altitude. The course change was executed at the easily seen Hudson River value... and the plane simply followed the river south which led to the twin towers... easily seen. This was the GPS era and having a hand held would allow someone to obtain heading to any chose waypoint. The novice pilot would have to make minor tweaks and slowly descend to the desired altitude. YES skill has involved... but probably skill which were easily mastered at a flight school and with simulator practice.

The flight which it the wtc made a long descending 180 turn and then descended in a straight course into the tower.

The pentagon hit was pretty easy too as it has the largest footprint of any building. a distinctive share and lies next to the Potomac and near the DC airport.

YES they needed 4 groups with one pilot in each... The planning was almost assuredly not documented in communications on the www but done with voice person to person or telephone. I doubt that intel had taps in place to listen to the "planners" but perhaps were tracking.... or trying to of guys with connections to former terrorists. Such as the 93 etc bombing. And to do so intel would like infiltrate or use plants to get info about who knows who and what they do... their day jobs, for example.

I suspect intel know that some sort of hijacking was in the offing. The bojinka plot was foiled and it involved lots of international planes being hijacked. It made sense that they would try something similar and spectacular... and what better than to hit the icons of US capitalism and and power. The WTC was already a known target... and of course the capitol and parhaps the pentagon, the CIA headquarters or NSA or the White House. Pentagon was the easiest target with the Capitol second.

Since it didn't matter WHEN they did it... except that good visibility was required it would be hard to catch them in the act. If airport security was ramped up... the hijackers would know this and postpone their plans. Perhaps the surveilled the airports and tested getting on those flights BEFORE the plot went live.

Intel DID report in the 8/16 PBD that something was up and it would involve planes. The info was probably not specific enough to prevent it. Could intel have puts stealth agents on all the trans continental domestic flights? slight maybe. Trans Atlantic flights would be another problem... and they would be empty of fuel by the time they crossed the Atlantic. It seems likely in hindsight that the plane involved fuel starting massive fires.

Hindsight is always 20-20.... we coulda shoulda... but the intel was too diffuse and vague to act on. Was it simply a matter of connecting dots? If there were dots... I am guessing there were not enough of them. But connecting dots is how a plot would be foiled. Were some dots not connected? Maybe... It would seem that if things were really screaming and that the intel was actionable a bust would have happened. But it's historically difficult to foil a crime as it's taking place or before To do so in this country historically you have to have and make a case for conspiracy. And this needs solid evidence. We couldn't even nail Cappone... they got him I believe on tax evasion.

NB how that now, post 911 and all this awareness of radical islamic terrorists... how many low tech terrorist attacks have been pulled off... Paris, Marseille...San Bernadine, Orlando, Germany, UK... And there will be more. Low tech terrorism is extremely hard to stop.

There will be more terrorist attacks. But we now live in a world of increased security and less freedom because of terrorism. The post 9/11 world.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

I already have in the many posts to this forum Not only have my prior posts proved beyond any reasonable doubt, but almost all of this information comes right from the many official US government reports from the investigations on 9/11. I have even posted the exact report name and even the exact page number in each where this information and proof is found.

We have had this conversation before. Nothing in that report (assuming we are talking about the same one) supported your conclusions. I pointed this out in detail to you some time ago.
I also find it strange that the US government would release a report containing concrete evidence that the US government is guilty of premeditated murder and treason. Do you have an explanation for this?

This proof is not only iron clad but absolutely no one on this forum has ever been able to refute any part of this information in any way.

This is completely untrue, as I have pointed out above. Just because you ignore any refutations and continue doggedly spamming the same tried nonsense does not validate your conclusions or make that statement correct.

Furthermore, if your so-called proof is indeed "iron-clad", why have you not taken this to the courts, or at least the US media? You could bring the murderers and traitors to justice, and vindicate yourself at the same time. What are you waiting for?

 

[Oystein]

...These people in the US government did not intentionally murder its own citizens and those of many other countries, it intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to do this by shutting down all FBI investigations that could have stopped this attack and prevented the murders of almost 3000 people on 9/11. This proof is not only iron clad ...

This is hyperbole at best, and you ought to be in a position to know this.
Slightly worse, it could be your projection.
At worst, you might be lying.

but absolutely no one on this forum has ever been able to refute any part of this information in any way. Please note the bolded.

Your information appears to be well researched, and I have no reason to assume you present in any other but proper context.
Your interpretation of it - the first quote above - however doesn't seem to be conclusively backed by that information. When an assertion has been made without sufficient proof, it needs no detailed refutation anyway.


paloalto, you could win support in this forum from some of the very best if you weren't so irrationally married to this jump in your conclusion - that there was an intention on the part of US agents named by you to have a high number of US citizens actually killed.

Also, I have advised you several times before, and would like to advide you again: You come here sparsely, and every time you post, at least your first post is an extremely lengthy story of very much. Try to focus more closely on individual items of the story you wish to convey. Win us over piece by piece. It is a very long stretch from where most here are to where you'd want to us to be.
Dan Noel of AE911T (whom I despise) calls this "baby steps". (His chosen baby steps are about WTC7, and each single one is misguided, so he fails to convince skeptics; I still like the idea of walking in baby steps)

 

[Notconvinced]

Second, while his account of his interaction with CIA agents at the bin Laden unit at the CIA with respect to Tom Wilshire blocking FBI Agent Dog Miller's cable on Mihdhar back to the FBI is accurate, some of his other accounts have.......

Thank you for this cogent analysis paloalto. You are correct.

I was 17 when invited to spend the day at my Dad's office at DoJ. There was some interaction with Jamie Gorelick, and much discussion about PGP and encryption concerns. There was a document that outlined the FBI and DoJ's major threat assessments related to the inadequacy of CALEA in the face of newer technologies. There were several occasions where I and the secretary had to leave the room so that secret (classified vs top idk) matters could be discussed. There was a great deal of cussing about various diplomats and their respective countries. This was the Office of International Affairs.

Here's my takeaway.... the FBI was often forced to rely on intelligence techniques and methods that were inherently illegal and therefore they 'could not' know about them. Regrettably, they also needed said techniques to do their job effectively. This was "the wall" that has been spun into some sort of mythological beast which prevented the FBI from effectively doing their jobs. If anything, at the time, the wall allowed the FBI to do their jobs, legally.

An operation such as a false flag like 9/11 was needed to facilitate an environment in which enough 'rules' could change that we would be poised to win in the 21st century against evil. You all KNOW this. In the face of the Bojinka plot, a plan was hatched within the executive branch to bring down the towers concurrently with a terror attack by jihadis.

The CIA knew about the plot.
The CIA had both the airfields and the airplanes.
The CIA had the Pentagon and executive branch infiltration needed to pull off the operation.
The CIA had the biological weapons needed to pressure the PATRIOT Act when there was resistance.
The CIA had the means, the motive, and the opportunity.
The CIA likely pulled off the attacks for the perceived greatest good.

So what's the problem?

The CIA NEEDS help.

They have no quality control department, quality assurance division, or accountability, and if they do.... they are absolutely INEPT and do not deserve our money.

America is doomed to face 9/11 truth because of conservation of momentum. It will start with WTC7, it will end with the Twin Towers, and common sense will prevail with respect to the Pentagon.

The slow acceptance to the notion that recognition of LIHOP may be necessary is just a transitory process in which you realize your entire war is lost. You may win this battle or that one, but you cannot prove a lie. Your fight is literally a lost cause, for it was wrong on Day 1.

9/11 was about seizure and control of data, plain and simple. Most people will inevitably forgive this fault if given the chance. They aren't that mad and it will make sense to them. You can continue to blame the wars on boogeymen bad guys, but when it comes time to recognizing the controlled demolition... that is your angle, because it's largely true, and people understand and forgive the truth. Be ready for it.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Thank you for this cogent analysis paloalto. You are correct.

I was 17 when invited to spend the day at my Dad's office at DoJ. There was some interaction with Jamie Gorelick, and much discussion about PGP and encryption concerns. There was a document that outlined the FBI and DoJ's major threat assessments related to the inadequacy of CALEA in the face of newer technologies. There were several occasions where I and the secretary had to leave the room so that secret (classified vs top idk) matters could be discussed. There was a great deal of cussing about various diplomats and their respective countries. This was the Office of International Affairs.

Here's my takeaway.... the FBI was often forced to rely on intelligence techniques and methods that were inherently illegal and therefore they 'could not' know about them. Regrettably, they also needed said techniques to do their job effectively. This was "the wall" that has been spun into some sort of mythological beast which prevented the FBI from effectively doing their jobs. If anything, at the time, the wall allowed the FBI to do their jobs, legally.

An operation such as a false flag like 9/11 was needed to facilitate an environment in which enough 'rules' could change that we would be poised to win in the 21st century against evil. You all KNOW this. In the face of the Bojinka plot, a plan was hatched within the executive branch to bring down the towers concurrently with a terror attack by jihadis.

The CIA knew about the plot.
The CIA had both the airfields and the airplanes.
The CIA had the Pentagon and executive branch infiltration needed to pull off the operation.
The CIA had the biological weapons needed to pressure the PATRIOT Act when there was resistance.
The CIA had the means, the motive, and the opportunity.
The CIA likely pulled off the attacks for the perceived greatest good.

So what's the problem?

The CIA NEEDS help.

They have no quality control department, quality assurance division, or accountability, and if they do.... they are absolutely INEPT and do not deserve our money.

America is doomed to face 9/11 truth because of conservation of momentum. It will start with WTC7, it will end with the Twin Towers, and common sense will prevail with respect to the Pentagon.

The slow acceptance to the notion that recognition of LIHOP may be necessary is just a transitory process in which you realize your entire war is lost. You may win this battle or that one, but you cannot prove a lie. Your fight is literally a lost cause, for it was wrong on Day 1.

9/11 was about seizure and control of data, plain and simple. Most people will inevitably forgive this fault if given the chance. They aren't that mad and it will make sense to them. You can continue to blame the wars on boogeymen bad guys, but when it comes time to recognizing the controlled demolition... that is your angle, because it's largely true, and people understand and forgive the truth. Be ready for it.

I could go through this unevidenced bilge point by point, but, frankly, that would be an utter waste of time. I shall instead content myself with answering thus:

 

[beachnut]

... America is doomed to face 9/11 truth because of conservation of momentum. ...

There would be no 9/11 truth if the followers could comprehend physics and do a momentum model.

Did Rossini talk about conservation of momentum?

Big hint: 19 terrorists did 9/11. The false flag remains your fantasy.

But the best response to fantasy, remains...

I could go through this unevidenced bilge point by point, but, frankly, that would be an utter waste of time. I shall instead content myself with answering thus:

 

[Oystein]

...
Here's my takeaway....

You should check your autocorrect. You surely meant to write "hot teenage fever dream", right?

An operation such as a false flag like 9/11 was needed to facilitate an environment in which enough 'rules' could change that we would be poised to win in the 21st century against evil. You all KNOW this.

The way we KNOW that you KNOW this is merely a hot teenage fever dream is that you use all caps to convince us you know our minds better than we do - a ploy so obviously fictional not even you would fail to see through it.

 

[Axxman300]

Here's my takeaway.... the FBI was often forced to rely on intelligence techniques and methods that were inherently illegal and therefore they 'could not' know about them. Regrettably, they also needed said techniques to do their job effectively. This was "the wall" that has been spun into some sort of mythological beast which prevented the FBI from effectively doing their jobs. If anything, at the time, the wall allowed the FBI to do their jobs, legally.

Wow, not one thing you said here was or is now true.

An operation such as a false flag like 9/11 was needed to facilitate an environment in which enough 'rules' could change that we would be poised to win in the 21st century against evil.

Like Gyngivitus?

You all KNOW this.

No I don't know this. Things were good in 2001, we'd paid down the debt, the tech-bubble had burst but tech was still going strong, and in general the country was in healthy shape.

In the face of the Bojinka plot, a plan was hatched within the executive branch to bring down the towers concurrently with a terror attack by jihadis.

Proof? Oh that's right, there ain't none. Plus, if you knew anything about the executive branch and the tenets of the World Trade Center you might grasp how ridiculous this idea really is. Had they picked a different target, a BETTER target like a nuclear power plant, you might have something to go on, but targeting bond traders and high end lawyers is always a bad idea for any politician or deep-stater.

The CIA knew about the plot.

They knew something was up, so did the FBI, so did a couple of French news agencies, and we can't forget the DoD knew back in May, 2001 that something was coming because they closed all military bases to civilian traffic.

The CIA had both the airfields and the airplanes.

Really, where? I know they have a pair in Nevada, and share one with the USAF in Arizona. I will need to see the bill of sale for 4 767s, and the CIA inventory of said aircraft before 9-11-2001, and immediately afterward. If the planes are missing you might be onto something, but you still have to account for the missing AA,United planes, and we know those crashed into Manhattan, Shanksville, and DC.

The CIA had the Pentagon and executive branch infiltration needed to pull off the operation.

You understand that this is treason that ends up with everyone involved strapped to a table when they get caught.

The CIA had the biological weapons needed to pressure the PATRIOT Act when there was resistance.

Nope, the biologics were traced to the US Army, and the Patriot Act was going to happen anyway.

The CIA had the means, the motive, and the opportunity.

Means? Not really. Motive? Have met anyone who works at CIA on any level? The sheer number of CIA operatives required to pull off 9-11 as we know it would have started at 3,500. Lock 4 CIA agents in a room and try to get them to agree on anything, it's not going to happen.

The CIA likely pulled off the attacks for the perceived greatest good.

Tacos?

So what's the problem?

Your grip on the real world.

The CIA NEEDS help.

Why? You just described them as having super powers and unlimited resources, but somehow they still need help?

They have no quality control department, quality assurance division, or accountability, and if they do.... they are absolutely INEPT and do not deserve our money.

The CIA is not SEARS. They do have accountability, even though they don't seem to get punished too often.

America is doomed to face 9/11 truth because of conservation of momentum.

No, mostly because a bunch of states have legalized marijuana.

It will start with WTC7, it will end with the Twin Towers, and common sense will prevail with respect to the Pentagon.

16 years, dude, when's the big day? Who's doing the investigating right now?

The slow acceptance to the notion that recognition of LIHOP may be necessary is just a transitory process in which you realize your entire war is lost.

Look, Scooter, nobody thinks we're winning anything. Just killing people who need killing and want to die for their god. It's the same as taking out the trash, there's always more trash.

You may win this battle or that one, but you cannot prove a lie. Your fight is literally a lost cause, for it was wrong on Day 1.

We've won a lot of battles, the only lie is that 9-11 was an inside job. The worst thing about 9-11 Truth is that it has kept battlefield stocked with confused young men who have been tricked into believing this lie.

9/11 Truth are the true murderers in this game.

Your talking about a plan to fake an attack on the US to lead us into TWO wars, but without framing anyone from either country. Then the Amazing CIA forgets to stage chemical weapons in Iraq for our troops and press to "find".

9/11 was about seizure and control of data, plain and simple.

So you must be the lone person not to own a smart phone or a computer (but you'd need one to post here). The phone companies, Google, Facebook and Apple have more data on a vast chunk of the human race right now. More than the CIA, NSA, and NRO could ever hope to process. This was done without firing a shot. In fact, most of us lined up to surrender our personal data to these and other corporations.

War is counter productive to this process.

You can continue to blame the wars on boogeymen bad guys,

No, we're just let Al Qaeda take credit...since they did it...and they're proud of it.

but when it comes time to recognizing the controlled demolition...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

Oh that's right, today's 4/20....

 

[paloalto]

We have had this conversation before. Nothing in that report (assuming we are talking about the same one) supported your conclusions. I pointed this out in detail to you some time ago.
I also find it strange that the US government would release a report containing concrete evidence that the US government is guilty of premeditated murder and treason. Do you have an explanation for this?

This is completely untrue, as I have pointed out above. Just because you ignore any refutations and continue doggedly spamming the same tried nonsense does not validate your conclusions or make that statement correct.

Furthermore, if your so-called proof is indeed "iron-clad", why have you not taken this to the courts, or at least the US media? You could bring the murderers and traitors to justice, and vindicate yourself at the same time. What are you waiting for?

Your post: "This is completely untrue, as I have pointed out above. Just because you ignore any refutations and continue doggedly spamming the same tried nonsense does not validate your conclusions or make that statement correct."

No person on this forum has ever provided even one single even semi-intelligence refutation of the information I have described, information from official US government reports, with the name of the document and even in many cases even the page number of the report.

As to the refutations, are you referring to these, here some of them are in all of their glory:

“This is false, you made it up. BS flag waves high on this.”

or how about:

“This is false, they did not know, you made this up. [That a huge al Qaeda attack was just about to take place inside of the US that would kill many Americans]”

or maybe this one:

“BS conclusion. Total BS, aka extreme BS. How do you make up these conclusion, they did not KNOW.”

These are all typical of the thinking or lack thereof, in the posts from what might be called the "de-bunkers" on this forum.

This poster wrote:

"I also find it strange that the US government would release a report containing concrete evidence that the US government is guilty of premeditated murder and treason. Do you have an explanation for this?"

Yes, the people who wrote the reports from the investigations on 9/11 were a different set of people from the people who had allowed the attacks on 9/11. However, none of these reports was complete in itself. Each report had been carefully obfuscated so that anyone reading that single report would never have a complete picture from just that one report of what had taken place prior to the attacks on 9/11, that had allowed these attacks to take place.

Even after leaving out critical information so people reading the report could never have a full picture of why the 9/11 attacks had taken place, each report had then been criminally obfuscated or modified to hide information from the American people. In addition the actions of the people described these reports do not make any sense from the stand point of, what would a rational person have done with this information.

Some examples:

Why did the DOJ IG report not point out that Tom Wilshere knew immediately when he was told on August 21, 2001 by FBI Agent Margaret Gillespie, working at the CIA bin Laden unit, that both Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi were found inside of the US by the INS, that these al Qaeda terrorists were here in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would murder many Americans. The DOJ IG report has Wilshere's July 5, 2001 email back to the CIA indicating that Wilshere thought that the people who were at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, Mihdhar and Hazmi, were connected to the massive number of warnings that the CIA and FBI had been getting since April of 2001, of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack. It does not have his email, found in DE 939, and sent back to CIA officers, Richard Blee, and Coffer Black, and given to George Tenet, on July 23, 2001, that said that specifically Khalid al-Mihdhar would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda terrorist attack.

Why was Wilshere’s, horrific July 23, 2001 email, not in the 9/11 Commission report, claimed to be the most complete official US government report on 9/11. In fact this report does not even have Wilshere’s July 5, 2001 email back to Blee and Black. We know that the 9/11 Commission had these emails since they stated that they had all of the information from the DOJ IG investigation of 9/11.

The 9/11 Commission stated that they could not understand why the CIA had never connected the warnings they had of a huge and spectacular al Qaeda terrorist attack inside of the US that would murder many Americans to the fact that the CIA knew that the three al Qaeda terrorists, al Qaeda terrorist Khalid al-Mihdhar, Nawaf al-Hazmi and his brother Salem al-Hazmi, were inside of the US, when in fact these emails sent from Tom Wilshere at the FBI HQ’s to the CIA had directly connected these al Qaeda terrorists to the warnings of these attack. This is clear evidence that the entire 9/11 Commission report was nothing but a complete and total fraud on the American people.

When Wilshere found out on August 21, 2001, that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, why didn’t he immediately contact FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, and have him find Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al Hazmi before they had time to take part in the huge al Qaeda terrorist attack that he was aware was just about to take place inside of the US?

Tom Wilshere had been moved over to the FBI from the CIA, ostensibly according to the DOJ IG report, so that FBI criminal investigators could exploit CIA intelligence in FBI criminal investigations. August 21, 2001 was three weeks and one day prior to the attacks on 9/11, plenty of time for Bongardt to have found these terrorists before the attacks on 9/11.

According to the DOJ IG report Wilshere also knew that both Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. He had discussed this information in emails with CIA officer Clarke Shannon, in mid-May 2001, just after he was moved over to the FBI, by the CIA in order to find out for the CIA, if the FBI Cole bombing investigators had uncovered the information that the CIA was desperately trying to keep secret, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing.

The DOJ IG report also states that Wilshere had found in a CIA cable on July 13, 2001, the photograph taken of Walid bin Attash, mastermind of the Cole bombing, a photo taken at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, the planning meeting attended by Mihdhar and Hazmi. The was the photographic proof that both Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. Since many people at the CIA were also aware of this information, including Richard Blee, Cofer Black and George Tenet, plus many others, 50-60 people according to the CIA IG report, they were all guilty of the major Federal felony of withhold material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation into the murder of 17 US sailors and guilty of criminal conspiracy to commit the crime of withholding material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation into the murder of 17 US sailors.

Instead of contacting Bongardt, Wilshere called FBI HQ’s Agent Dina Corsi and asked her to attend a meeting in his office the next day on August 22, 2001, with Margarete Gillespie to go over Gillespie’s discovery that Mihdhar and Hazmi were found inside of the US. Corsi already knew that the al Qaeda terrorist were planning a huge terrorist attack on the US, she had written up an EC in April 2001, at the request of her boss Rod Middleton, describing the large number of warnings by Usama bin Laden and Khattab indicating a spectacular al Qaeda terrorist attack aimed at the US. Wilshere asked Corsi on August 22, 2001, to write up an EC to start an intelligence investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, and asked Gillespie to bring the information that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, back to the rest of the CIA.

Not only did Corsi know that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in a terrorist attack she warned about in her EC in April 2001, but according to the DOJ IG, report page 301, she also knew on August 22, 2001, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had also taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. She admitted that she had the photographic proof of this from Tom Wilshere, who had gotten this photo from the CIA on July 13, 2001. Corsi clearly knew that it was a major Federal crime not to give this information immediately to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt.

On August 22, Gillespie brought the information that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US went back to the CIA to the bin Laden unit headed by Richard Blee. Blee was the CIA manager who we now know had received Wilshere’s email on July 23, 2001, that indicated that Mihdhar would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda terrorist attack.

On August 23, 2001, Corsi tells her boss Rod Middleton, that al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US. His immediate reaction was “AH ****”. He knew immediately that given Corsi’s EC describing the many warnings of an al Qaeda terrorist attack aimed at the US, that these al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US in order to take part in this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack.

There was never an explanation why this horrific information was kept completely secret from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt. It was only after 6 days, on August 28, 2001, that Corsi finished her EC, had Wilshere review it and sent it over to the New York FBI office to start not a criminal investigation, but an intelligence investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi.

This EC went to FBI intelligence agent Craig Donnechie, who gave it to his boss John Ligouri. Ligouri thought this EC connected Mihdhar and Hazmi to the people who had taken part in the Cole bombing and sent this EC to Steve Bongardt. Bongardt immediately called Corsi and asked her to allow him to start a criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi before they had time to take part in some horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack. He stated to Corsi, “Why do you think they are here do you think they are going to *********** Disneyland”.

Corsi told him, on August 28, 2001, that because there was a NSA cable in her EC, and by law he was not allowed to even look at it, he could not start any criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. What she did not tell him, was that she had already gotten approval on August 27, 2001 from the NSA General Council to give this NSA cable to him, according to the DOJ IG report.

Bongardt stated that she must be confused, that the NSA caveat prohibiting FBI criminal agents from having NSA cables without NSA permission, only applied to NSA cables that had been obtained with a FISA warrant. But this NSA cable described a phone conversation in Yemen between two people outside of the US, discussing the travel of Mihdhar and Hazmi to an important al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur, a situation that everyone at the FBI HQs would know, never required a FISA warrant. A FISA warrant was only required if one party to a NSA recorded phone conversation, was inside of the US.

Bongardt asked Corsi to get a NSLU opinion to see if he could start a criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. Corsi emailed Bongardt on August 29, 2001, (see DE 682), and said the attorney she and Rod Middleton consulted stated that Bongardt could have no part in any criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. But it turns out that the attorney Corsi and Middleton had contacted, told them that since the NSA cable had no connection to any FISA warrant, Bongardt could take part in any investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi that he wanted.

In her email, Corsi stated after shutting down his investigation, that “if at such time as evidence is developed of a major Federal crime, [by Mihdhar and Hazmi], that information will be passed over the wall per the proper procedures [to your team] for follow up criminal investigation”. But according to the DOJ IG report, Corsi admitted to DOJ IG investigators, that she had photographic proof on August 22, 2001, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing that had killed 17 US sailors, clearly a substantial Federal crime by these two al Qaeda terrorists.

Bongardt was never given this horrific information, until after the attacks on 9/11. Corsi knew that Tom Wilshere, Deputy Chief of the FBI ITOS unit, the unit in charge of all al Qaeda terrorists investigations on the world, was also aware of this information, she had gotten the Kuala Lumpur bin Attash photo from him and the CIA was also aware of this information, the Kuala Lumpur Attash photo had come from the CIA.

She also knew that both Wilshere, and the CIA were hiding this Kuala Lumpur photo of bin Attash from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt so he would never have the “probable cause” required to be able to start any criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. She, along with Wilshere, and the CIA all were aware that these al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US in order to take part in the massive al Qaeda terrorist attack she had detailed in her April EC.

On August 24, 2001, Tom Wilshere received email from FBI RFU Agent Michael Maltbie, and was told that Maltbie and David Frasca were blocking FBI Agent Harry Samit’s investigation of Zacharias Moussaoui, claiming that they had found no nefarious intent from Moussaoui, in spite of the fact that Samit thought Moussaoui was a terrorist trying to learn how to fly a B747 without even having a private pilot’s license, and had received information from French intelligence that had connected Moussaoui to the Khattab terrorist organization.

Frasca had received the EC from FBI Agent Dian Corsi in April that detailed the many warning of a terrorist attack aimed at the US by both the Khattab and the bin Laden terrorist organizations. Maltbie and Frasca told Samit that he could not even request a FISA warrant for Moussaoui’s duffle bag because Khattab was not a recognized terrorist organization. The FISA court stated after the attacks on 9/11, that they had no concept of “recognized terrorist organization”, that probable cause of a connection to any terrorist organization was sufficient to get a FISA warrant.

In Moussaoui’s duffle bag was a receipt for $14,000 from Ramzi bin al Shibh, roommate in Hamburg, Germany with Mohammed Atta, Ziad Jarrah and Marwan al-Shehhi. On August 24, 2001, Wilshere now knows about Moussaoui, knows a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack is about to take place inside of the US, knows that al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US in order to take part in this attack, his July 23, 2001 email proves this, and even knows that he has ordered Corsi and Middleton to keep all this information completely secret from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt.

Wilshere himself, had been ordered by his former CIA managers, Richard Blee, Cofer Black and George Tenet, on July 13, 2001 and again on July 23, 2001 to criminally sabotage FBI Steve Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi by withholding the Kuala Lumpur information from him and his team of FBI criminal investigators.

On April 30, 2001 the CIA sent the Kuala Lumpur photo to the FBI Washington HQ’s to Rod Middleton, proving to Middleton that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. So two weeks prior to the attacks on 9/11, Middleton could have notified Bongardt and had him start a criminal investigation and find Mihdhar and Hazmi before they have time to take part in the massive al Qaeda terrorist attack. Middleton even knew that it was in fact major Federal felony for Middleton not to give this information immediately to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt.

Incredibly, when the investigation and search for Mihdhar and Hazmi, was given to another FBI agent, to Robert Fuller, and Fuller called Corsi to get permission to call Saudi Arabian Airlines to get Mihdhar’s credit card number on September 5, 2001, because as he told her, his investigation was going to go nowhere without this number. She refused to give him permission to get this number. She nor has anyone else has never explained in any way why she denied him permission to get this credit card number.

FBI HQ’s agents and managers again and again deliberately took every possible action to completely block and/or shut down any and all criminal investigations of all terrorists found inside of the US, investigations that could have prevented the attacks on 9/11, even after all of these agents and managers knew a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was about to take place inside of the US. Not only did all of these managers at FBI HQs have Corsi’s EC on the warnings of this attack, but what did these agents and managers think, when these terrorists were found inside of the US, that they was here to get a little R&R before later carrying out an attack in Outer Mongolia?

All of this information and all of these facts, obtained only after aggregating thousands and thousands of pages from the many different official US government reports on 9/11, are incontrovertible proof that FBI HQ’s agents and managers, under orders from the CIA, had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people on 9/11 by shutting down or blocking all FBI criminal investigations that could have prevented these attacks.

 

[beachnut]

... under orders from the CIA, had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people on 9/11 by shutting down or blocking all FBI criminal investigations that could have prevented these attacks. ...

This is BS.

Are you the person who said you warned people, you knew it was coming?

Got some evidence for the leap to BS?

 

[Oystein]

This is BS.

Are you the person who said you warned people, you knew it was coming?

Got some evidence for the leap to BS?

Seconded.

paloalto, you say that "no person on this forum has ever provided even one single even semi-intelligence refutation of the information I have described" - maybe that's semi-intelligent and somehow true. I'll grant that, for the moment and the sake of argument.

Your takeaway, however - "had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people" - still is nothing but a "hot teenage fever dream", as I told you already two weeks ago; it simply does not follow from the information you provide. It is your personal interpretation, your personal attempt at mind reading, fully loaded with your own personal emotions and bias.

Stop that stupid nonsense, and by and by you might win a rational person or twp over.

Stop posting those walls of text - you can link to any of your previous walls of text. Just correct your previous walls of text by excising this stupid nonsense mind reading BS.

 

[paloalto]

Seconded.

paloalto, you say that "no person on this forum has ever provided even one single even semi-intelligence refutation of the information I have described" - maybe that's semi-intelligent and somehow true. I'll grant that, for the moment and the sake of argument.

Your takeaway, however - "had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people" - still is nothing but a "hot teenage fever dream", as I told you already two weeks ago; it simply does not follow from the information you provide. It is your personal interpretation, your personal attempt at mind reading, fully loaded with your own personal emotions and bias.

Stop that stupid nonsense, and by and by you might win a rational person or twp over.

Stop posting those walls of text - you can link to any of your previous walls of text. Just correct your previous walls of text by excising this stupid nonsense mind reading BS.

Maybe you are right. It was not deliberate. The CIA and FBI HQ's shut down these FBI criminal investigations again and again and again accidentally. Their numerous and careful actions to shut down these investigations, when they all knew it would shut down or block investigations that could have stopped the al Qaeda terrorist attacks that these agencies had been warned about since April 2001, and allow this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack to take place that would kill many people in the US, were numerous actions that were all completely accidental.

Their testimony was that the people in the CIA and at FBI HQ's were just all way to stupid to know that the three al Qaeda terrorists that the CIA found on August 21, 2001, inside of the US, were connected to the warnings of this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack that was just to take place inside of the US, is correct. How could anyone have been smart enough to have connected these two. Even the 9/11 Commission stated that they could never figure out why the CIA had never connected these two.

After all, as you have pointed out, how could anyone be smart enough to know that three al Qaeda terrorist inside of the US were connected to the warnings of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack just about to take place inside of the US. Maybe the CIA and FBI HQ's thought they were here in order to get a little R&R before going to Outer Mongolia to carry out this attack.

It is now clear that no one could ever have been smart enough to connect several al Qaeda terrorists inside of the US to the warnings of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack inside of the US.

And how would anyone know when you shut down the FBI criminal investigations of these al Qaeda terrorists inside of the US, by FBI criminal investigators who wanted to under take to find these terrorists before they had time to carry out a terrorist attack inside of the US, and told the FBI HQ's agents that if they shut down their investigations of these terrorists, people in the US will die, that this would allow these terrorists to carry out a terrorist attack inside of the US.

To connect these two, the fact that al Qaeda terrorists were found inside of the US to the many warnings of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack just about to take place inside of the US, is as you said, is just nonsense.

 

[DGM]

Maybe you are right. It was not deliberate. The CIA and FBI HQ's shut down these FBI criminal investigations again and again and again ................................

How was the information the CIA was to pass to the FBI obtained? None of these suspects rights would have been violated, correct?