Interesting JE Hits....

[Ipecac]

This was the next part with these same two sitters.

. . .

Daughter: Yes, we have his kiddush cup.

JE: Because he's telling me its got his name on it.

. . .

The kiddush cup with the engraved name of the deceased turned out to be a good validation for them.

AAARGH!! He could see the cup but he couldn't see the d*mned name engraved on the cup?!? Instead the "grandpa" had to tell him the name was on the cup. And of course the "grandpa" didn't/couldn't tell JE his own name?!?

This is a perfect example of why many of us don't believe this nonsense.

 

[renata]

It's called "David's Star" in Danish! (farts in your general direction)

...which, in Danish, actually means "the sexual partner of David" (if David was an animal). Had it been an "å", it would have been "Mågen David", "David the Seagull".

Yes, Danish is a strange language....

Carry on.

Damn Danes! Rude, smartass pervert bastards....

Far from it. There are over one million Jews in New York.

Yeah, we are everywhere.....

1. Did JE grow up in NY? He could have been familiar with Jewish traditions and accessories
2. He did not actually guess it was Jewish, the sitters told them that. Do Catholics or any other Christians use a similar type item?




I see Clancie has received a lot of responses here. It looks the questions are going several directions at once. I suggest a kind soul with extra time on his hands collate the questions by topic? Claus? It might be easier for her to address it that way, instead of each individual poster. And I am looking forward to her commentary, especially on LKL readings.

 

[c0rbin]

We'll be right back after these messages...

 

[arcticpenguin]

2. He did not actually guess it was Jewish, the sitters told them that. Do Catholics or any other Christians use a similar type item?

Catholics do not.

 

[Starrman]

Seriously, Clancie - you really think these hits are not like cold reading?

You really think the BEST possible explanation for these exchanges between human beings, taped for and broadcast on the sci-fi channel, is that one or more of the human beings is dead?

 

[Starrman]

Catholics do not.

They are not used in the home, but are used for mass and communion.

 

[CFLarsen]

Damn Danes! Rude, smartass pervert bastards....

'ey!!

1. Did JE grow up in NY? He could have been familiar with Jewish traditions and accessories

Sit down. This is not going to be pretty.

Guess what?

Glen Cove was among the first settlements to have Jewish communities:

"Although far apart, Sag Harbor and Glen Cove both had early Jewish communities "
....
"At about the same time at another Long Island port to the west, Jewish settlers in Glen Cove worked as peddlers and shopkeepers in the growing city. They held services in private homes for 20 years and, in 1897, founded Tifereth Israel, Nassau's first synagogue and Long Island's oldest continually operating, year-round congregation. Like many Jewish and Christian congregations on Long Island, both congregations were founded by European immigrants drawn here by the prospect of jobs. Although there were several other early Jewish communities on Long Island, including Lindenhurst and Setauket, the great wave of Jewish immigration did not occur until well after the turn of the century. "
Long Island's Founding Jews

and

"This special section tells the story of Long Island's Jewish history, from early settlers to the peddlers who walked from New York City with packs on their backs in the 1800s to people who are an integral part of the Island's culture and commerce today."
LI History

Guess what?

JE was born October 19, 1969, in Glen Cove and went to Glen Cove High School.

Conclusion:

I'd say it was pretty darn impossible for JE to grow up in Glen Cove and not learn a thing or two about Jewish customs.

I see Clancie has received a lot of responses here. It looks the questions are going several directions at once. I suggest a kind soul with extra time on his hands collate the questions by topic? Claus?

Of course!

It might be easier for her to address it that way, instead of each individual poster. And I am looking forward to her commentary, especially on LKL readings.

Me too. In the meantime, for the people:

11 Techniques to Talk to the Dead, Part II, by Paul Sandoval

The article deals with JE's readings on Larry King. Very interesting stuff.

 

[Dallin]

1. Did JE grow up in NY? He could have been familiar with Jewish traditions and accessories
2. He did not actually guess it was Jewish, the sitters told them that. Do Catholics or any other Christians use a similar type item?

Renata,

True, JE simply asked about a cup/chalice, but leaves it open for interpretation. Possible connections are:

- A chalice used for mass
- An engraved cup won at a competition or an award of some sort
- A momento of a wedding, anniversary, etc
- An engraved gift from a loved one
- A kiddush cup

Etc etc. While JE certainly could have had a hunch that the sitters were Jewish and threw the words out hoping they would reply with 'kiddush cup', at worst he left himself some legroom in case they came up with a different example of an engraved cup. At best he allowed the sitter to supply valuable information about themselves, eg they are Jewish, the specific nature of the cup... also interesting that he doesn't even bring up the engraving until after the sitters confirmed they owned the cup.

In fact, knowing little about the Jewish religion, I just looked up what a kiddush cup is, and here is the definition i found...

http://collections.ic.gc.ca/art_context/tkidd.htm

which includes the quote

Often people's names or biblical passages are inscribed on cups.

So, he learned from the sitter that they owned a kiddush cup from the departed; I would think it a safe guess to throw out that his name was engraved on it. It sounds to me like he was playing the numbers.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Just to support the idea that it's not such a special hit, I've cut down a tree, my mother has cut down a tree, my dad has cut down a tree, my brother-in-law has cut down a tree, and two of my best friends have cut down trees.

I don't see it as being so special.

 

[tracer]

[Among Catholics, silver chalices] are not used in the home, but are used for mass and communion.

Good point -- look at the exact wording of the exchange:


JE: "I'm being shown a chalice, you know, a silver chalice, a cup."
Elderly woman: "Oh! A kiddush cup!"
Daughter: "Yes, we have his kiddush cup."
JE: "Because he's telling me its got his name on it."


Notice that JE didn't say anything about the cup being engraved until after the Elderly woman had told him it was a Kiddush cup. If the Elderly woman had instead said "Oh! A communion cup!", then JE still would have gotten to count his chalice question as a "hit", and would not have gone on to ask about the cup being engraved. JE only suggested that anyone's name was engraved on the cup after the woman told him it was a Kiddush cup, which are items known to be engraved with people's names.

 

[renata]

Notice that JE didn't say anything about the cup being engraved until after the Elderly woman had told him it was a Kiddush cup. If the Elderly woman had instead said "Oh! A communion cup!", then JE still would have gotten to count his chalice question as a "hit", and would not have gone on to ask about the cup being engraved. JE only suggested that anyone's name was engraved on the cup after the woman told him it was a Kiddush cup, which are items known to be engraved with people's names.

That is exactly correct. And as Dallin pointed out, it could have been anything else.

JE: "I'm being shown a chalice, you know, a silver chalice, a cup."
Elderly woman: "Oh! My grandson's spelling bee trophy!"
JE: "Because he's telling me he is very proud of the boy."

JE: "I'm being shown a chalice, you know, a silver chalice, a cup."
Elderly woman: "Oh! My poodle's best in show award!"
JE: "Because he's telling me you trained the puppy together."

JE: "I'm being shown a chalice, you know, a silver chalice, a cup."
Elderly woman: "Oh! My silver wedding anniversary gift!"
JE: "Because he's telling it was very meaningful, a symbol of how much he loved you."




etc, etc.

 

[Starrman]

JE only suggested that anyone's name was engraved on the cup after the woman told him it was a Kiddush cup, which are items known to be engraved with people's names.

Actually, he does says earlier in the reading "Do you have a chalice that has his name on it. (gestures the height with his hands)."

So in all fairness, he did say there was a name on it right from the beginning.

 

[tracer]

Starrman: D'OH! You're absolutely right. I completely missed that.

I hereby formally apologize to John Edwards for assuming that he could have made the silver chalice out to be something that didn't have somebody's name on it. John Edwards was very brave and took the great risk of assuming the Elderly woman was probably Jewish and would therefore have a Kiddush cup, when he made up that question.

 

[renata]

Actually, he does says earlier in the reading "Do you have a chalice that has his name on it. (gestures the height with his hands)."

So in all fairness, he did say there was a name on it right from the beginning.

You are correct. So it rules out the poodle, but not a gift or trophy- for him. Also, if there had been a name of a relative, I am sure it would have been stretched to fit. (Recall the Schrunchie Snuggle bear stretch)

 

[Starrman]

Renata and tracer

You are correct. So it rules out the poodle, but not a gift or trophy- for him. Also, if there had been a name of a relative, I am sure it would have been stretched to fit. (Recall the Schrunchie Snuggle bear stretch)

This is exactly why this is cold reading. I've seen him throw darts like this before and miss, and just move on to something completely different. The only reason this stands out is because his dart hit something.

He doesn't confirm what the target was until after the sitter verifies it. He throws the dart, and then draws the target - isn't his whole game the Texas sharpshooter's fallacy?

 

[neofight]

Actually, he does says earlier in the reading "Do you have a chalice that has his name on it. (gestures the height with his hands)."

So in all fairness, he did say there was a name on it right from the beginning.

Not only that, Starrman, but chalices are very often donated to the Church as a memorial to someone who has died. They are also given as gifts by family/friends to newly ordained priests, and more often than not, they are engraved.

I think Clancie was using this example to demonstrate how John will get a certain symbol, the chalice, which is within his frame of reference, being a Catholic, and the sitter then can translate that into what it means for them.

We believe that the frequency with which these hits are accurate, or meaningful to the sitter, would prove to be consistently higher than the frequency that a cold-reader might attain.

Unfortunately, I am not aware of any cold-readers who are interested in putting this theory to the test. ......neo

 

[arcticpenguin]

We believe that the frequency with which these hits are accurate, or meaningful to the sitter, would prove to be consistently higher than the frequency that a cold-reader might attain.

What can you say about the frequency when the broadcast in question was not controlled and was edited? It is just another anecdote.

 

[CFLarsen]

Unfortunately, I am not aware of any cold-readers who are interested in putting this theory to the test. ......neo

I am. Test me, neo. How do you suggest we approach this? You can open a new thread for this.

 

[Starrman]

which is within his frame of reference, being a Catholic, and the sitter then can translate that into what it means for them.

So it is up to the sitter. And you still maintain that the BEST explanation for all of this is that JE is in contact with the dead?

Ian Rowland (a cold reader) brought a woman to tears with a reading about an out of date calendar on Prime Time live. This is a great example of a cold reader getting a hit that is not quite accurate (Rowland said the deceased had made it for her - but it was not) and the sitter translating into something meaninful.

We believe that the frequency with which these hits are accurate, or meaningful to the sitter, would prove to be consistently higher than the frequency that a cold-reader might attain.

Why can't this be explaied as JE being the BEST cold reader out there? Michael Jordan's lifetime statistics are much better than most basketball players, but they are all STILL playing basketball.

 

[neofight]

What can you say about the frequency when the broadcast in question was not controlled and was edited? It is just another anecdote.

Yes. Just like the *mediumship* demonstration done by Ian Rowland on ABC's Primetime Halloween Special that impressed so many of you skeptics, except so much better than that measley 90 seconds of heavily edited tape.

I've seen JE do readings for hours straight, and pass on some really meaningful information to the sitters. I'd pay good money to see the same sort of lengthy demonstration done by someone like Ian.......neo