Interesting Contrast

espritch

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I just got online and glanced at the AOL news headlines. There was a link to a story about the removal off the Ten Commandments from the Alabama judicial building. The title was "Bible Believers Feel Forsaken. Is society abandoning God?". Immediately below this headline was a link titled "Mother faces stoning death" about a lady in Nigeria condemned to die under Islamic law for having sex out of wedlock.

An interesting contrast: one story about fundamentalists feeling despondent that they aren't being allowed to flout the separation of church and state, and another about a country where there is no separation of church and state. Kind of makes you wonder why, if these guys want to live in a theocracy so badly, they aren't rushing to buy plane tickets to Nigeria?
 
The idea that they want to live in a theocracy is a strawman.
 
Yes, but not much of one.

The Religious Right wants you to live like their deity tells them to live and wants to pass or repeal legislation and ordinances as necessary to make you do so. That is a theocracy just a surely as if our President were selected by a priestly class.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:

The Religious Right wants you to live like their deity tells them to live and wants to pass or repeal legislation and ordinances as necessary to make you do so.
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Duh!! Almost every group wants to impose its moral vision on society, and takes the appropriate actions to do so. Why single out the religious right?
 
Tony said:


Duh!! Almost every group wants to impose its moral vision on society, and takes the appropriate actions to do so. Why single out the religious right?
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- A theocracy is a nation ruled by religious law or edict or a priestly class.
- The Religious Right advocates religious law and edicts determining our laws and how we should live our lives.
- The Religious Right advocates theocracy.

= Other groups with political agendas are not advocating the U.S. be ruled by religious law, edict or priests and therefore are not advocating theocracy.

The fact that groups wish to impart or impose via legislation their views on society has no relevency on if they're trying to impose or advocate theocracy if they are not religious groups.

So are we splitting hairs on using the term theocracy, or do you want to discuss the Religious Right in more general terms?
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


- A theocracy is a nation ruled by religious law or edict or a priestly class.
- The Religious Right advocates religious law and edicts determining our laws and how we should live our lives.
- The Religious Right advocates theocracy.
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I disagree that the religious right advocates religious law. They may advocate law based on the morals derived from religion, but that isnt religious law.

So are we splitting hairs on using the term theocracy, or do you want to discuss the Religious Right in more general terms?

I think both.
 
Tony said:
I disagree that the religious right advocates religious law. They may advocate law based on the morals derived from religion, but that isnt religious law.
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What I wrote:
The Religious Right advocates religious law and edicts determining our laws and how we should live our lives.

I think both.
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Cool.

My biggest problem is that my social libertarian streak is most offended by the Religious Right. I want to be able to buy pornography, I want to buy beer at 7am on a Sunday, I don't want Science being thrown away in favor of Creationism, and I don't want my tax money going for evangelism. I have problems with the social left, the economic left and the economic right also, but living in Texas, my dad to day living is most likely to be effected by the social right.
 
Since I'm lucky enough never to have heard of Richard Simmons, it wouldn't have the slightest effect on me :p
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


What I wrote:
The Religious Right advocates religious law and edicts determining our laws and how we should live our lives.
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I see your point. But is it really fair to say they advocate theocracy when the laws they are advocating are in the context of a constitutional republic or democracy? I dont see too many on the religious right advocating for the bible to become absolute law in place of the constitution.

A theocracy is government based directly on the inspiration of religious doctrine.

Cool.

My biggest problem is that my social libertarian streak is most offended by the Religious Right. I want to be able to buy pornography, I want to buy beer at 7am on a Sunday, I don't want Science being thrown away in favor of Creationism, and I don't want my tax money going for evangelism. I have problems with the social left, the economic left and the economic right also, but living in Texas, my dad to day living is most likely to be effected by the social right.

I agree. But the “social right” has never hindered my libertarian lifestyle, although, I don’t obey laws with which I disagree. Perhaps you should do the same? ;)

I wish the liquor stores were open past 9pm though. :mad:
 
Tony said:
I see your point. But is it really fair to say they advocate theocracy when the laws they are advocating are in the context of a constitutional republic or democracy? I dont see too many on the religious right advocating for the bible to become absolute law in place of the constitution.

A theocracy is government based directly on the inspiration of religious doctrine.
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Actually some are. If you've never heard them use the phrase "God's Law over Man's Law" I'd be surprised. It's been bandied about quite frequently during the Moore's Monument issue. And that's not even taking into consideration people like the Reconstructionists and stealth reconstructionists like D. James Kennedy.
http://www.coralridge.org/
Check out the links there for his "Center for Reclaiming America" and "Center for Christian Statesmanship." People like Kennedy want to see an officially (their interpretation of) Christian (ity) United States. They want the laws to reflect their vision of right and wrong. They want to run roughshod over religious freedom and diversity. They want a defacto theocracy, even if we don't have a priesthood ruling or appointing the ruler.

I agree. But the “social right” has never hindered my libertarian lifestyle, although, I don’t obey laws with which I disagree. Perhaps you should do the same? ;)

I wish the liquor stores were open past 9pm though. :mad:
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Well, since I'm a believer in the rule of law, I obey them. If I don't like them, I try to have them changed. That's one of the beauties of living in a democratic replublic - we're neither lawless nor bound immobile by the law.

The social right also has an agenda far beyond getting Howard Stern off the radio or boycotting Disney. They have a much more intrusive and insideous agenda.

9pm is state wide? I thought they we're open until 10pm in Wichita Falls... perhaps I'm misrecollecting.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


Actually some are. If you've never heard them use the phrase "God's Law over Man's Law" I'd be surprised. It's been bandied about quite frequently during the Moore's Monument issue. And that's not even taking into consideration people like the Reconstructionists and stealth reconstructionists like D. James Kennedy.
http://www.coralridge.org/
Check out the links there for his "Center for Reclaiming America" and "Center for Christian Statesmanship." People like Kennedy want to see an officially (their interpretation of) Christian (ity) United States. They want the laws to reflect their vision of right and wrong. They want to run roughshod over religious freedom and diversity. They want a defacto theocracy, even if we don't have a priesthood ruling or appointing the ruler.
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I guess I stand corrected.

Well, since I'm a believer in the rule of law, I obey them.

Ive never bound myself by rules or laws. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

9pm is state wide? I thought they we're open until 10pm in Wichita Falls... perhaps I'm misrecollecting.

I dunno if its state wide.
 
Well, this revelation on your part, and the fact that you post so late prompts me to ask what shift you work? I work 7p to 7a. My relief usually gets me out of here at 6:30 and my commute is 20 minutes. That means I have to f*** off 10 minutes to wait for beer sales to start when I could have my sixer heading to the casa.
 
I recently graduated college and have yet to get a "real" job, but I have been working freelance since I graduated.

And since you know you wont be able to buy beer until 7, why dont you stock up at home?
 
Tony said:
And since you know you wont be able to buy beer until 7, why dont you stock up at home?
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Trust me, after 7 years of doing so, I still feel a smidgen of discomfort walking up to the checkout counter with 3 cases. I just hate wasting that 10 minutes so it makes sense to stock up for a week or so than grab a pack every few days.

And how about giving the non-American members her a little break. Zep's a really cool guy. Take his jabs in the spirit they were intended - light hearted. He's not DC after all.
 
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