Insomnia

[Zelenius]

There is software called f.lux that makes the color of your computer's display adapt to the time of day, warm at night and like sunlight during the day.

I had looked for something like that(even thought about creating a program like that), but never knew where to look. That sounds like such a great idea. I do dim my monitor at night, while wearing the orange glasses; if I don't dim it the light is more stimulating. I'll give this software a try.

 

[Modified]

I took 5-HTP every day for 60 days with no noticeable effect.

Didn't do anything for me either.

Magnesium seems to be helpful, but maybe more for me because it helps with the myoclonic jerks and RLS.

 

[Zelenius]

Any thoughts on testosterone levels and sleep?

I suspect melatonin may lower testosterone somewhat. Some research indicates it.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing - Melatonin prevents testosterone-induced suppression of immune parameters...

This is just my experience and anecdotal, but when I used to take melatonin supplements at night before bed, within about 20 to 30 minutes, my libido was almost completely gone. I'm a young, athletic guy and normally have a strong sex drive, so this was pretty alarming at first. I would even try looking at porn or thinking about certain "things" while under the influence of melatonin and I felt borderline asexual. Certain photos or videos that would normally turn me on had almost no effect on me.

Upon waking, I still had no libido, but the effects wore off by mid-day and I started liking girls again. This is one of the reasons I didn't like taking melatonin.

Interestingly enough, when I started wearing the orange tinted glasses I mentioned above to induce sleepiness(they block light that suppresses melatonin)a few years ago, I experienced the same exact effect on my libido for the first 6 months. So melatonin in pill form or brought about by darkness has the same effect.

I still wear the orange glasses, and although they still help make me sleepy, my libido doesn't really suffer as much. I also think I sleep better if I don't engage in certain testosterone-lowering activities before bedtime. I think testosterone levels that are too low during sleep may reduce sleep quality, since testosterone is needed to help build and maintain muscle, among other possible effects.

 

[Zelenius]

Didn't do anything for me either.

Magnesium seems to be helpful, but maybe more for me because it helps with the myoclonic jerks and RLS.

I've noticed many many times that on days when I forget to take or deliberately do not take my calcium-magnesium supplements, it is more difficult for me to fall asleep. So this is another thing that helps me.

I recommend consulting doctors or health professionals before taking calcium-magnesium or most supplements. Eating more leafy greens like kale may be a better way to get calcium and magnesium, rather than pills.

Also, eating salad or drinking green vegetable juice with dinner or after dinner seems to help me sleep better and I also wake up feeling more refreshed in the morning for some reason. It's too bad my old juicer broke.

 

[Zelenius]

Some useful information on this site - Bipolar Disorder, Light, and Darkness: Treatment Implications

The link between chronic insomnia(or more accurately, a circadian rhythm disorder) and bipolar disorder and other mental issues is very interesting. It seems most people who are bipolar also have serious sleep problems. It's a vicious cycle in which they exacerbate each other. There is some evidence that people with bipolar disorder are very sensitive to light, to blue light in particular. Perhaps, in some cases, successfully treating bipolar disorder will also improve co-morbid sleep disorders and vice versa.

 

[megaresp]

Some useful information on this site...

Thanks for posting that. It was very interesting indeed, and not just limited to the relationship between poor sleep and mental disorders, but useful info on sleep mechanisms in general.

I have ordered some blue-light blocking glasses. For those in the UK Google helped me find this company, which is a lot less expensive than many others and has an extensive range.

I'll report back to this thread when the glasses arrive (re: time to deliver and order-related stuff), and then my anecdotal experience re: whether the glasses have helped with sleep.

 

[Roboramma]

When I was 18 or so I took a tablet of Niacin every night before bed. There was a period of intense drowsiness that lasted for about 10 minutes which would generally let me get to sleep. After that came the niacin flush, but I'd usually be asleep before it hit.

I did that for about a month. Have no idea if it was a bad idea or not, but I didn't notice the effect diminishing over time.

 

[zooterkin]

A few years ago, I started to have problems sleeping, both getting to sleep and sleeping through the night. The main thing seemed to be, as some have said already, thoughts racing through the brain about things that should have been done and so on. I've largely solved that problem by listening to speech-based podcasts (in fact, mostly BBC radio programmes) on headphones. The content is interesting, and the speech also has a soporific effect; the only problem is that there's a lot of things I've only heard the first half of.

I still quite often wake up in the early hours; sometimes I get back to sleep again by listening to the podcasts. Sometimes I stay awake and hear the end of the podcast, so it's not a complete loss. I rarely manage to sleep past 6am. I used to worry about the lack of sleep, which seemed to make it worse, because it was one more thing to worry about. I know it's easier said than done, but I've managed to stop worrying about that, or getting upset if my sleep is disturbed for any reason, and I seem to be coping with the amount of sleep I do get (though occasionally I do need to take an afternoon nap to catch up).

I'm going to TAM, and as jetlag means I have even more trouble sleeping, I went to the doctor last year and he prescribed some sleeping tablets (just for the week). They seemed to help, so I went back for some more for this year. However, based on some of the comments this thread, I just looked up what they are. They are Zopiclone. Now, most of the bad effects seem to be due to using them for a long time, and I have no plans to do that, and I had no problem stopping using them last year. However, I'm a bit alarmed by memory loss as a side-effect; I had lunch with someone at TAM last year, but couldn't remember who with. I was explaining this to someone later, and they pointed out it was them I'd had lunch with. I put this down to jetlag in general, but I'm having second thoughts about that now.

 

[KTB]

I have a problem with getting to sleep where my mind just races and I think too much about everything and then I get annoyed that I can't get to sleep and then I get stressed because I need to wake up in a couple of hours and try to be productive but I know I'll be tired the whole day... Horrible visious circle.

Anyhoo, one thing that has helped somewhat to quiet my brain down is to go through your day in excrusiating detail. Many times I haven't got throgh my morning shower before apparently falling a sleep
It's quite difficult to "stay on track" and my mind starts to wander to different things, then I just start over again. "Woke up, closed the alarm bell, got out of bed...."

 

[zooterkin]

I have a problem with getting to sleep where my mind just races and I think too much about everything and then I get annoyed that I can't get to sleep and then I get stressed because I need to wake up in a couple of hours and try to be productive but I know I'll be tired the whole day... Horrible visious circle.

Anyhoo, one thing that has helped somewhat to quiet my brain down is to go through your day in excrusiating detail. Many times I haven't got throgh my morning shower before apparently falling a sleep
It's quite difficult to "stay on track" and my mind starts to wander to different things, then I just start over again. "Woke up, closed the alarm bell, got out of bed...."

Yes, before the podcasts mentioned above, I used to do something similar and go through the plot of a film or TV programme I'd just seen, or a book I'd read, in detail. The key seems to be to concentrate on something apart from what is worrying you.

 

[Roboramma]

Anyhoo, one thing that has helped somewhat to quiet my brain down is to go through your day in excrusiating detail. Many times I haven't got throgh my morning shower before apparently falling a sleep
It's quite difficult to "stay on track" and my mind starts to wander to different things, then I just start over again. "Woke up, closed the alarm bell, got out of bed...."

That's quite similar to meditation technique I used to use before bed. It was really simple: I'd count ten slow deep breaths. But if my mind wandered during the count, I'd start over.

It generally took me about 10 minutes to finish. By the point my mind would be in the right state that sleep would come quickly.

 

[Cainkane1]

Back in 2003 I had what I believe was a low level nervous breakdown. I was worried about my aging parents and my job was aggravating my situation. I went for days without sleep until I went to a psychiatrist who gave me a prescription for trazadone. It worked like a charm.

I have to take other medicines such as anti depressants and such. As we age our problems intensify and getting old definitely isn't for sissys.

 

[Tacita]

I had trazadone, and was taking it for insomnia. It gave me audio and visual hallucinations and made my anxiety 10 times worse.

Ambien did work for me, for a while, but I built up a resistance to it.

Now I just use Benadryl. It only lasts 4 hours and doesn't make me feel crappy the next day. In fact I'll take 3 in a night, as long as I time the last one to wear off right before the alarm.

I just saw a commercial for Nyquil that is only for sleep, not a cold. I guess they got a hard backlash after they changed their ingredients so that the one that makes you sleep doesn't work anymore. I might give that a try.

 

[Zelenius]

Has this been posted yet?

Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep

This looks promising, but it will probably be years before this is available in pill form, assuming it is safe.

 

[Zelenius]

Thanks for posting that. It was very interesting indeed, and not just limited to the relationship between poor sleep and mental disorders, but useful info on sleep mechanisms in general.

I have ordered some blue-light blocking glasses. For those in the UK Google helped me find this company, which is a lot less expensive than many others and has an extensive range.

I'll report back to this thread when the glasses arrive (re: time to deliver and order-related stuff), and then my anecdotal experience re: whether the glasses have helped with sleep.

I really hope it works for you. There are no guarantees with this kind of thing, but I do know these glasses have been helpful for me and some friends and family(and not helpful for some relatives as well).

 

[Dancing David]

Some useful information on this site - Bipolar Disorder, Light, and Darkness: Treatment Implications

The link between chronic insomnia(or more accurately, a circadian rhythm disorder) and bipolar disorder and other mental issues is very interesting. It seems most people who are bipolar also have serious sleep problems. It's a vicious cycle in which they exacerbate each other. There is some evidence that people with bipolar disorder are very sensitive to light, to blue light in particular. Perhaps, in some cases, successfully treating bipolar disorder will also improve co-morbid sleep disorders and vice versa.

Well, the data would need to show that insomnia is related to light and not to the circadian disruption experienced by those in shift work as well, which has light cuing as well.

Just for information, sleep disturbance is part of major depression as well, and experienced by most people with major depression. What study exactly shows this alleged correlation between light and bipolar disorder?

Treating bipolar disorder will almost always resolve any sleep issues. Light levels and patterns are part of sleep hygiene, I also don't see the article referenced in the page you posted.

Lithium also works by becoming part of the neuron potentiation cycle. Also there are plenty of medication which are effective in treating bipolar disorder: carbamezapine and valproic acid, and the newer anti psychotics. So I am not sure about the meaning of again the light sensitivity being specific to bipolar disorder.

 

[Dancing David]

Thanks for posting that. It was very interesting indeed, and not just limited to the relationship between poor sleep and mental disorders, but useful info on sleep mechanisms in general.

I have ordered some blue-light blocking glasses. For those in the UK Google helped me find this company, which is a lot less expensive than many others and has an extensive range.

I'll report back to this thread when the glasses arrive (re: time to deliver and order-related stuff), and then my anecdotal experience re: whether the glasses have helped with sleep.

Sleep hygiene is important, the part that many people miss is the waking up at the same time everyday.

 

[Dancing David]

Back in 2003 I had what I believe was a low level nervous breakdown. I was worried about my aging parents and my job was aggravating my situation. I went for days without sleep until I went to a psychiatrist who gave me a prescription for trazadone. It worked like a charm.

I have to take other medicines such as anti depressants and such. As we age our problems intensify and getting old definitely isn't for sissys.

Trazadone, jokingly referred too by one of my friends as the t-bomb. It is a very sedating TCA, often used with zoloft in a cocktail, trazadone is a dopamine antidepressant and zoloft a serotonin AD.

 

[megaresp]

I really hope it works for you. There are no guarantees with this kind of thing, but I do know these glasses have been helpful for me and some friends and family(and not helpful for some relatives as well).

I said I'd report back on the blue-light blocking glasses from OptimalOWVision.

They arrived earlier in the week. It took 3 days from placing the order, one of which was Sunday. There was a delivery charge of around £3. The order system terminated at WorldPay and I was not returned to the company's site. The company emailed me on Tuesday to say the product would arrive in 2-3 days time. It actually arrived about 30 minutes after the email .

The product packaging was labeled: Fragile. Product for the Blind. They look like massive sun glasses and have deep yellow lenses. The world certainly warms up when you're looking through them (useful given the current UK summer).

I've worn them for the last 3 nights. I get a mild headache after about an hour of wearing them. This is somewhat helped by wearing my reading glasses under them. They're not exactly light - a bit like thick-framed 60s-style sun glasses in terms of weight.

I haven't had a problem falling asleep, but due to pressure of work this last week I've had very late nights. They have not made a difference in terms of staying asleep. I've woken up at least once every night. No trouble falling back asleep.

I'm not going to use them tonight and see what happens. I guess it will take some time to figure out whether these are helping or not.

Still - at £21 it's a relatively low price to test a potential cure. Better still, they're fit-overs so are enormous on my face. I look like Joe 90¹ when wearing them!

¹ - Cultural reference that shows my age

 

[Zelenius]

Well, the data would need to show that insomnia is related to light and not to the circadian disruption experienced by those in shift work as well, which has light cuing as well.

Just for information, sleep disturbance is part of major depression as well, and experienced by most people with major depression. What study exactly shows this alleged correlation between light and bipolar disorder?

Treating bipolar disorder will almost always resolve any sleep issues. Light levels and patterns are part of sleep hygiene, I also don't see the article referenced in the page you posted.

Lithium also works by becoming part of the neuron potentiation cycle. Also there are plenty of medication which are effective in treating bipolar disorder: carbamezapine and valproic acid, and the newer anti psychotics. So I am not sure about the meaning of again the light sensitivity being specific to bipolar disorder.

Circadian polymorphisms associated with affective disorders.

Abnormal hypothalamic response to light in seasonal affective disorder.

Dark therapy for bipolar disorder using amber lenses for blue light blockade.

Chronobiological therapy for mood disorders.
"In recent years, an increasing literature about the safety and efficacy of chronobiological treatments in everyday psychiatric settings has supported the inclusion of these techniques among the first-line antidepressant strategies for patients affected by mood disorders."

Role for the Clock gene in bipolar disorder.