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Income adjusted traffic violation fines

I don't think the idea of getting caught up in amounts of money as a deterrent work too well.

There are plenty of drivers for whom a big fine are zero deterrent even if they are so destitute they haven't a hope in Hades of paying it. The saying "May as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" comes to mind. That's at least based on how some of them drive here in Oz (our Oz posters can testify to P-plate hoons).

Then there's that class of owner, as discussed above, for whom a traffic fine, even wealth-based, is as much an acceptable operating cost as buying another tank of fuel. Similarly, parking fines, especially given the botty-wincingly price-gouging efforts of certain parking stations in our major metropolitan cities.

A deterrent might be something more direct, and also not-wealth-based, e.g. have the vehicle confiscated for a period of time. The downside is the obvious effort and expense required to enforce (and house) confiscated vehicles. The upside is an immediate and tangible imposition on the driver. Swings and roundabouts??
 
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theprestige said:
No. You can hire a lawyer if you want. You don't have the right to a lawyer, at the state's expense if you can't afford your own. It's not the same as a criminal case.
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True. Again you make my point. They have representation that puts them in a position to avoid the consequences that ordinary citizens face.
 
Norman Alexander said:
I don't think the idea of getting caught up in amounts of money as a deterrent work too well.

There are plenty of drivers for whom a big fine are zero deterrent even if they are so destitute they haven't a hope in Hades of paying it. The saying "May as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" comes to mind. That's at least based on how some of them drive here in Oz (our Oz posters can testify to P-plate hoons).

Then there's that class of owner, as discussed above, for whom a traffic fine, even wealth-based, is as much an acceptable operating cost as buying another tank of fuel. Similarly, parking fines, especially given the botty-wincingly price-gouging efforts of certain parking stations in our major metropolitan cities.

A deterrent might be something more direct, and also not-wealth-based, e.g. have the vehicle confiscated for a period of time. The downside is the obvious effort and expense required to enforce (and house) confiscated vehicles. The upside is an immediate and tangible imposition on the driver. Swings and roundabouts??
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You're kidding, right? If you don't pay the fine, your licence gets suspended. And your vehicle is tagged and it shows that the driver is likely to have their license suspended. You receive another ticket. Your car is towed and impounded until you pay the fine. In the meantime you are assessed daily storage fees. Often as much as hundreds of dollars a day. And if you can't pay the fines , the storage and towing fees, the tow company can sell the vehicle at auction. And you can be sent to collection and having your credit ruined.
 
acbytesla said:
You're kidding, right? If you don't pay the fine, your licence gets suspended. And your vehicle is tagged and it shows that the driver is likely to have their license suspended. You receive another ticket. Your car is towed and impounded until you pay the fine. In the meantime you are assessed daily storage fees. Often as much as hundreds of dollars a day. And if you can't pay the fines , the storage and towing fees, the tow company can sell the vehicle at auction. And you can be sent to collection and having your credit ruined.
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That the USA?
 
acbytesla said:
True. Again you make my point. They have representation that puts them in a position to avoid the consequences that ordinary citizens face.
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My bad. I thought that you were arguing that traffic tickets entitle one to a lawyer at the state's expense if one cannot afford such.

I didn't realize that you were merely trying to repeat the agreed premise of the OP. We already that rich people have more resources than poor people. It's not a point you have to keep making over and over. You can move on.
 
theprestige said:
My bad. I thought that you were arguing that traffic tickets entitle one to a lawyer at the state's expense if one cannot afford such.

I didn't realize that you were merely trying to repeat the agreed premise of the OP. We already that rich people have more resources than poor people. It's not a point you have to keep making over and over. You can move on.
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No, I don't think it is mpressed enough. And the difference it makes in the system.
 
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Norman Alexander said:
Has it worked as a deterrent? Are road rule violations reduced as a result?
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Eh, that's a solid point. Is there any evidence that traffic fines actually deter bad driving? I'd think the goal of traffic infractions and points should be to get bad drivers off the road. I'm sure we could find plenty of examples of bad drivers getting infraction after infraction yet still driving along. This whole thing about punishing by income seems a bit of a red herring.
 
jeremyp said:
I should point out that even demerit points punish poor people more than rich people. Rich people can afford to pay other people to drive them about. If a poor person loses their right to drive a car and they live somewhere with bad public transport, they are royally ◊◊◊◊◊◊.
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And in both of those cases, someone who has proven they should not be trusted with a car is no longer driving. I see that as a social good.
 
acbytesla said:
i know fines are a deterrent for me.
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It's the insurance points and license suspension I worry about.

But to be honest the repeat offenders I see are all people with suspended licenses, no insurance, no registration, half the time the plates don't even match the car... And none of them are particularly wealthy.
 
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