• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

In Houston nondiscrimination is on the line (beheadings to follow)

Travis said:
Can I propose a thought. What if a little girl sees a penis in a locker room? I'm trying to understand just how seeing a penis is somehow a violation in and of itself. Was the little girl unaware they exist? If so would this not be a good way to understand not everyone is the same?
Click to expand...

Meadmaker said:
While I cannot come up with a logical answer to your questions off the top of my head, I will note that that the questions would be equally relevant whether the penis was attached to a male or a female, and whether or not the exposure of the penis occurred inside or outside a locker room.

(Note that this accepts the modern notion that the idea of a penis on a female is not an inherent contradiction.)

Despite my lack of a logical answer, I still would recommend that anyone contemplating showing his (or even her) penis to a little girl be very conscious of the circumstances. There are legal and ethical considerations involved.

Generally speaking, even in these modern times, it is assumed that a woman has the right to choose which penises she looks at. If she chooses not to look at it, most people are expected to keep their penises concealed from her view. In the case of small girls, that decision is generally delegated to the parents.

Apparently, some exceptions to the above rule apply.
Click to expand...
I don't really have a rational, logical explanation for why I think it's inappropriate either. This is because human sexuality and the mores/taboos revolving around it are not rational or logical. However, here's a good way to test your thought and illustrate the problems, Travis: walk in to a ladies locker room or restroom, approach a random young girl and expose your penis to her. After all, where's the violation?

I agree that the mere sight of a penis is not likely to be harmful. But it isn't about harm so much as it is about setting the boundaries that society deems appropriate. Most people don't want their little girls looking at penises. Maybe more appropriately stated, most people don't want their little girls around men who would expose their penises to them. It's more about potential harm than direct harm. In that sense, such boundaries are entirely appropriate.

There's also an element of the desire to protect kids from things that would confuse them. This isn't entirely rational either but if we are going to start basing laws on pure rationality, I can think of a hell of a lot better places to start than letting penises into women's restrooms.
 
The Don said:
Unless the design of women's bathrooms in the U.S. is fundamentally different to those in the UK wouldn;t they be using stalls. I can see how you could catch a glimpse at a urinal, but in a stall ?
Click to expand...

Now consider locker rooms where exposure to other's genitals is a more rational concern.
 
xjx388 said:
Now consider locker rooms where exposure to other's genitals is a more rational concern.
Click to expand...

....and ?

What do you suppose would happen in the event that someone caught a glimpse of another person's genitals ?

Strangely enough, the world does not end.

If there is a big problem with cases of indecent exposure and or sexual harassment then that's a different issue and unrelated to this ordnance.
 
The Don said:
What do you suppose would happen in the event that someone caught a glimpse of another person's genitals ?
Click to expand...

Nevertheless, I would recommend you take reasonable precautions to prevent your penis from being seen by non-consenting females. It's expected.

Unless you are a woman. Then it's ok.
 
Meadmaker said:
Nevertheless, I would recommend you take reasonable precautions to prevent your penis from being seen by non-consenting females. It's expected.

Unless you are a woman. Then it's ok.
Click to expand...

At least exposing yourself to boys is AKO. Nothing wrong with whipping you penis out to show young boys at any time you want.
 
Meadmaker said:
Despite my lack of a logical answer, I still would recommend that anyone contemplating showing his (or even her) penis to a little girl be very conscious of the circumstances. There are legal and ethical considerations involved.
Click to expand...

You are assuming the transwoman is willingly showing her penis to a child. I can think of two circumstances where a little girl could accidentally see a transwoman's penis in a locker room.

1) Transwoman is changing clothes. She does not change her underwear, but her "tuck" has come loose and a bit of the penis can be seen around the edge of her panties.

2) She is showering in a shower with a curtain, but the curtain is not closed all the way (or she brushes it and it opens, or someone else brushes it, etc). From the right angle, her penis could be seen.
 
BardKesnit said:
You are assuming the transwoman is willingly showing her penis to a child. I can think of two circumstances where a little girl could accidentally see a transwoman's penis in a locker room.

1) Transwoman is changing clothes. She does not change her underwear, but her "tuck" has come loose and a bit of the penis can be seen around the edge of her panties.

2) She is showering in a shower with a curtain, but the curtain is not closed all the way (or she brushes it and it opens, or someone else brushes it, etc). From the right angle, her penis could be seen.
Click to expand...

Or, she just walks around stark naked in front of everyone, showing off her penis to anyone who happens to be nearby, and accusing them of discrimination if they object. Google Colleen Brenna or Lila Perry.

And if they go one step further, and suggest that the penis that they see was actually attached to a man, then they identify themselves as obviously unenlightened.

I suppose an alternative, in case of trouble, would be to declare that she self identified as fully clothed in magnificent raiment, and that anyone who disagreed was a fool. It would probably work on anyone except a little child.
 
Claiming I am really a woman is a small price to pay if I really need to drop a deuce and can only use the ladies room.
 
Meadmaker said:
Or, she just walks around stark naked in front of everyone, showing off her penis to anyone who happens to be nearby, and accusing them of discrimination if they object. Google Colleen Brenna or Lila Perry.

<snip>
Click to expand...


This could be fun.

Should we all try and track down the most extreme examples of improper behavior we can unearth for each gender grouping and offer them with the insinuation that they are typical of the norm, or because it might happen then policy should be based on it?

With very little work we should be able come up with justifications to keep everybody out of all the bathrooms.
 
Meadmaker said:
Or, she just walks around stark naked in front of everyone, showing off her penis to anyone who happens to be nearby, and accusing them of discrimination if they object. Google Colleen Brenna or Lila Perry.
Click to expand...

So because 2 transwomen act stupid, you assume all transwomen would do the same?
 
BardKesnit said:
So because 2 transwomen act stupid, you assume all transwomen would do the same?
Click to expand...


Act stupid? Ms. Perry is a hero...er...do we still say heroine?

Google her. She bravely stood up to discrimination. It's all over everything to the left of National Review.

She eventually dropped out of gym class, so the locker room issue, which was where the biggest problem was, became moot in her case.


And Colleen Brenna? I recall mostly support for her, as she strutted her male parts in the girls locker room at the community college, in front of the high school girls' swim team that shared the facilities . Of course the right wing condemned her, and even a few on the left said that she ought to have shown some consideration for the women she shared a locker room with, but generally she was seen as the victim. Maybe she got less support because she was a self-described lesbian. You know how it is, with all the anti-lesbian discrimination in the world.

Fortunately, the Department of Education has recently clarified the rules on Title IX. They have made it clear that schools must honor the gender identity of all students, and place no restrictions on any person using the appropriate locker or bathroom facilities for their gender, regardless of their biological status. Privacy curtains are a violation of their legal rights, and schools will lose funding if they insist on their use. With such clear statements, we can presumably expect to see more reasonable attitudes in the future.


So, no, I don't expect all transwomen to behave as these two did, but at least they have the right to do so, if that's what they wish.

So, why you would call them stupid?
 
Meadmaker said:
And Colleen Brenna? I recall mostly support for her, as she strutted her male parts in the girls locker room at the community college, in front of the high school girls' swim team that shared the facilities . Of course the right wing condemned her, and even a few on the left said that she ought to have shown some consideration for the women she shared a locker room with, but generally she was seen as the victim. Maybe she got less support because she was a self-described lesbian. You know how it is, with all the anti-lesbian discrimination in the world.
Click to expand...

And of course any man exposing himself in that fashion to young boys is really just a catholic priest so it is ok. When will people learn to never expose their genitals in a locker room?
 
ponderingturtle said:
At least exposing yourself to boys is AKO. Nothing wrong with whipping you penis out to show young boys at any time you want.
Click to expand...
A lot of talk about male anatomy on display, but not so much about a woman (or transman) showing boobs or other lady-bits in men's bathrooms or locker rooms. Hmm...

Speaking of male anatomy on display, anyone catch the interview in the Bengals locker room after the Buffalo Bills game a couple of weeks ago? :eye-poppi

Those guys can use my locker room any old time ;)
 
xjx388 said:
I don't really have a rational, logical explanation for why I think it's inappropriate either. This is because human sexuality and the mores/taboos revolving around it are not rational or logical. However, here's a good way to test your thought and illustrate the problems, Travis: walk in to a ladies locker room or restroom, approach a random young girl and expose your penis to her. After all, where's the violation?

I agree that the mere sight of a penis is not likely to be harmful. But it isn't about harm so much as it is about setting the boundaries that society deems appropriate. Most people don't want their little girls looking at penises. Maybe more appropriately stated, most people don't want their little girls around men who would expose their penises to them. It's more about potential harm than direct harm. In that sense, such boundaries are entirely appropriate.

There's also an element of the desire to protect kids from things that would confuse them. This isn't entirely rational either but if we are going to start basing laws on pure rationality, I can think of a hell of a lot better places to start than letting penises into women's restrooms.
Click to expand...

Why are supposing that men are going to be just whipping out their penis on purpose?

I was proposing accidental exposure like a girl walking in a male family member getting out of the shower which, somehow, doesn't cause the world to end every time it happens.
 
Travis said:
Why are supposing that men are going to be just whipping out their penis on purpose?

I was proposing accidental exposure like a girl walking in a male family member getting out of the shower which, somehow, doesn't cause the world to end every time it happens.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting angle. Would you be comfortable using a locker room wherein your Mother was walking around nude? Would you feel fine stripping bare as she did the same on the bench across from you? Or would that be entirely too weird?
 
I have walked in on my mom while undressed and somehow I did not climb a clocktower as a result.
 
Travis said:
I have walked in on my mom while undressed and somehow I did not climb a clocktower as a result.
Click to expand...
Good for you, but that is kind of dodging the question.
Would you feel comfortable in a locker room nude with your also nude mother? In close proximity for the amount of time it takes to disrobe, attend to your various personal hygiene issues, and get dressed? Would she feel comfortable under the same circumstances?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom