i'm sending in my application

Obvious Issues

1) Your hand is on the table (in the second clip).

2) Your mouth is not in view (in either clip).

3) It spins in only one direction (blowing).

Took guts to post em though, I'll give you that.

Scott

PS
I've got a couple of nice ones of me floating a dollar bill and of me floating in the air.
 
I can't help but notice that both videos are shot at an angle that makes it all too easy to hide a mechanism for supporting the paper.

Barb
 
ahahahahhaa

good god poeple. i'm not asking YOU to believe anything. of course i could have faked it, the entire scene could be a digital forgery with me not even really there.

i've got another vid of me spinning a straw i'm going to get someone to get that person to put up, right now i'm practicing again so in a day to a week i should be able to make a vid of me spinning it under a glass. not that i'm proving it, i just feel like having a vid to show my friends.

jeez, such skeptics.

and i can make psiballs by the way
 
Re: ahahahahhaa

kayimbo said:
good god poeple. i'm not asking YOU to believe anything. of course i could have faked it, the entire scene could be a digital forgery with me not even really there.

i've got another vid of me spinning a straw i'm going to get someone to get that person to put up, right now i'm practicing again so in a day to a week i should be able to make a vid of me spinning it under a glass. not that i'm proving it, i just feel like having a vid to show my friends.

Are you planning to take the Challenge? Videos won't be part of it, so practice your skills for a live demonstration.


jeez, such skeptics.

<..>

Ha, ha, good one!

CompJan
 
Re: ahahahahhaa

kayimbo said:
good god poeple. i'm not asking YOU to believe anything. of course i could have faked it, the entire scene could be a digital forgery with me not even really there.

You were up front with saying you knew this -- don't worry about it. Most of the comments were merely tryiung to think about how to ensure a proper test.

When/if you apply, you'll need to think about controlling for different possibilities -- vibration, air current, involuntary movement, etc. -- it was more of an intellectual exercise thinking about possible problems with test design; I don't think most were trying to bust your chops.

Good luck!

and i can make psiballs by the way

I can make highballs -- we'll need to talk.


NA
 
hmm yeah i didn't think about that. sorry for getting defensive.

i'll do some vids with tiny peices of paper around it so you can see its not air currents. i guess i could also wear a face mask, change directions (if you look real close at the second video you can see it doing that), also i can assemble a normal screw and a normal peice of paper and so on and so on. i get paid tomorow so thats when i'll go to the notary.

i'm 19.

psiballs are easy, flaring (making them visible) is a little harder, i've done it once or twice but i can't do it at will yet, and even then no video or picture would prove it.




happy trails
 
As you're aware, no amount of videos comprise part of the challenge process, so while we might enjoy watching them, they aren't going to get you any closer to the $1 million even if everyone here is convinced that they are genuine.

Where JREF can be of enormous benefit is helping you with ideas for constructing preliminary tests which would meet the terms of the challenge and be acceptable to both yourself and the Foundation, and I get the idea that is pretty much what you're seeking from us - help with writing a proposal which isn't going to get thrown in the bin because the test conditions are absurd. Am I on the right track?
 
reprise said:
As you're aware, no amount of videos comprise part of the challenge process, so while we might enjoy watching them, they aren't going to get you any closer to the $1 million even if everyone here is convinced that they are genuine.

He understands that and has stated so.

Plus it's been pointed out to him repeatedly, hehe.

He's providing the videos soley for our information and understands the rules quite well.
 
kayimbo said:
hmm yeah i didn't think about that. sorry for getting defensive.

Don't worry about that. Some who come here with claims can be quite antagonistic so a lot of us are a little bit quick on the draw, hehe.

Most here will return polite behavior in kind even if they may be skeptical of your claims and you have been nothing but cordial with me so I hope everyone will treat you fairly.
 
i'm posting here because i know alot of poeple that can do much more than just spin pinwheels so i'm trying to get as much attention on the fact that i'm legitmately taking the challenge.

it just seemed like a good step towards getting a million dollars to try and get other poeple focused on my application.

hmm, i would also very much like help in how to word the application and all.
 
Can you get a video of you moving something:

a) that could not be moved via convection currents (from the heat of your hands) or other air movements, such as someone blowing on it?
b) when you not right next to it? (like 10 foot away)

Also, why not find some of those 'other people' that can perform telekinesis. If you dont pass the test perhaps they will.
 
kayimbo said:
i'm posting here because i know alot of poeple that can do much more than just spin pinwheels so i'm trying to get as much attention on the fact that i'm legitmately taking the challenge.

it just seemed like a good step towards getting a million dollars to try and get other poeple focused on my application.

hmm, i would also very much like help in how to word the application and all.

Although I'm much more interested in the Psi-Balls, let me give you a little advice on the application. You see, in order to win, there's only one two-part condition - Make a paranormal claim, demonstrate said claim.

If you keep it simple, you will make the whole process easier on you.

Instead of "I am telekinetic," say "I can move objects with only the power of my mind."

Instead of "I can shoot Psi-Balls," say "I can create globes of psychic engergy in my hands and throw or manipulate them."

Keep the wording simple and use common speech, not slang or terms to describe your claim even if it means your claim is wordier.
 
kayimbo,

the problem that most of us notice is that what you are doing is _very_ easy to do using known physics. Other posters have mentioned some of the methods.

I wouldn't bother making new videos with paper bits strewn around to 'prove' you aren't using air currents. Moving bits of paper requires quite a bit of force to move (relative to a spinning paper) due to friction, wind resistance, and possibly static electricity. It won't get you any closer to the million dollars. I'd concentrate on getting that money, if I were you.

Does your ability require your hand to be close to the object as depicted in the videos? If so, I can't think of any cheap way to prove that the effect is not due to body heat and air currents. What is the maximum distance at which you can get this effect.

The spinning paper, while sensitive to small forces, is a fairly crude device. Look into Cavendish torsion balances, which are used to measure gravatational force, which is _extremely_ weak. This page tells how to build a pretty nice one in your home http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/foobar/.

The problem is that this balance will be very sensitive to your body and stray air currents, as well as temperature differences. The article mentions these effects.


Think about this claim carefully. Have _you_ proven that these very basic, well-known physics is not the cause of the effect? If you have, then it will be easy to write up a good application. Just tell us how you proved it, and we can easily generate the language for the application.

If you _haven't_ proven this yet, might I suggest you do this before proceding with the claim. I understand your eagerness for the million, but it'll be embarrasing for you if it turns out you are wrong, and, as far as I am concerned, a bit unethical to waste Randi's time.

This is not an attempt to argue w/ you about whether you can do what you claim; I have no interest in such a discussion. But it is an attempt to point out that what is shown in the video is very, very likely to happen due to well-known physics. A successful application and test will have to prove that these effects are not what is causing the movement.

I'd be happy to elaborate on the physics if you need a better explanation, or to help with wording on the application.

Also, I know Randi will help refine the nature of the test procedures, as long as you very clearly describe what you do, and what will constitute a failure and success.

"I can exert small forces, sufficient to move small objects, solely with my mind. I have built an apparatus (describe it...). I can make the paper spin by (describe it...).

A successful test shall consist of me making the paper move, on command, 10 times in a row. The command shall specify the direction of rotation. The movement will commece within 5 seconds. When told to stop, the movement will cease within 10 seconds. The "movement" must consist of the paper spinning at leat 720 degrees. There will be a mark on the paper to facilitate measuring this.

Failure to do this during any of the 10 trials shall constitute failure"

That probably doesn't exactly fit what you need, but it's a start. Its a clear description of what you do, how it is tested, and what is required to pass, and to fail.

I don't think Randi will accept this experiment, since it is so easy to do it with normal physics, but it should give you an idea of how to proceed.

hope this helps.
roger
 
kayimbo,
I think roger has a very good point when he mentions stopping the rotation as part of the test. It's a good thing to try yourself, stopping and starting the rotation, and changing the direction of rotation.

I hope you do win the million. I don't believe that powers like that exist, but if they ever are proven to exist, I'd be first in line to Learn how to do it.
 
ah i didn't realise that he would accept or deny experiments.

basically speaking all i can do is tell the pinwheel to spin, and then it does it. as of right now i can't really control its stopping or starting, except by leaving the room possibly.

when i send in my application i have to talk about vaccume devices and all that?

and i mean, its pretty obvious that if poeple think its body heat then every time i put my hand near it the pinwheel should spin. which it wouldn't
 
oh yeah, but what i can do is make the pinwheel spin indefintely in a single direction. would it be a good application to state that i would cause the pinwheel to spin in a single direction in an obviously paranormal way, and then i'd stop and the pinwheel could be observed when i'm not acting on it, then i'd start the pinwheel rotating again for like a couple minutes.
 
kayimbo

yes, spinning in a single direction, if it's done by paranormal means, is enough to win the prize. There do have to be some controls. Can you do the same thing if you put a transparent water glass over the disk? Something like that would eliminate
wind effects.

You should control for electrostatic, light and thermal effects as well.

If you have to put your hand close to the wheel to get it to start turning, then the things you have to eliminate as possibile factors are the heat from your hand, any electrostatic charge, and the air movements caused by you bringing your hand near to the disk.
 
kayimbo said:
ah i didn't realise that he would accept or deny experiments.

basically speaking all i can do is tell the pinwheel to spin, and then it does it. as of right now i can't really control its stopping or starting, except by leaving the room possibly.

when i send in my application i have to talk about vaccume devices and all that?


k:

You won't have to mentiona ll that in the app itself -- the initial app should describe what you can do for the test. (i.e., you can cause a wheel to rotate through pk). If there is a size, weight, or material that you are limited to, you may want to list that.

After the basic claim is made, you and Randi or his representative will have to agree on safeguards to eliminate any outside influences. Most of the above thread was simply people speculating on what might be needed to ensure that air currents or heat, etc., could be eliminated as a cause.

You may want to include some mention on these safeguards, because the original test with a paper wheel is a well-known way that any, many people have managed to deceive themselves with. Frankly, it is so common that Randi may not show much interest unless you have worked to test yourself under controlled conditions, as well. I do not know that for a fact, but I do recall some dicussions a while back on sci.skeptic regarding this test and how easy it is for tiny, tiny heat variations and air movements to fool the test-taker, even where thoise changes were so small that they were unnoticed by the test-taker.

So, if you can duplicate your test with more controls in place -- especially if you can find a friendly university lab with a small vacuum chamber, for example -- the better your chances are at getting Randi's attention.

NA
 

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