I need help (please read)

[tnt666]

Fortunately the people who actually know what they're talking about recognise this for the complete load of crap it is, otherwise I'd probably be dead. You're free to give us your opinion, but don't expect to be treated as anything other than an uninformed idiot when it's as nonsensically wrong as this.

Your words make you seem like someone with very little experience and insight outside of your own sheltered life, and your posting attitude reminds me of the idiots who go on threads just to flame and troll and don't actually bring anything interesting into the conversation. But of course I don't know you will not waste my time snooping around your history to know if this a pattern of yours...

Doctors are great yes, but they are not the end all to end all (pardon my English). They are not some new form of god. Mild asthma is nothing to have fits over, 95% of the population has a mild something or other. Your arrogance is part of the reason doctors sometimes get a bad rap.

People don't ALWAYS need medication for EVERY little thing that pops up. And if instead attacking people you actually tried to communicate. Doctors saved your life and mine, great! How blessed we are!

And dear OP, I think yes, such fundamental differences are hard to overcome in relationships, a purist vegetarian would find it hard to date a meat/potato person, a world citizen would find it impossible to date a racist. There are life choices which are profound enough to render a relationship impossible. But that's life, we try our hand at different things and choose our way among them.

 

[Locutus]

I used to have asthma when I was younger, but I grew out of it. It was mild for me, too. I had medicine (not tablets, which are pretty powerful and not good for you on a regular basis; I had an inhaler, which is used when you get asthma rather than regularly as a preventive) but I would have been fine without, really. Your girlfriend probably will be, too, if she does have mild asthma, and there is always the chance she will grow out of it.

By contrast, my sister has had four asthma attacks that required her hospitalisation. Without medication she could have died. Frankly, though, it's probably not worth pushing it, even though it's a nice thought to want to relieve her discomfort. NB that I am relying on your description of it as "very mild", that I'm only a patient myself and not an MD, and that doctors know more than you.

 

[Dymanic]

Your words make you seem like someone with very little experience and insight outside of your own sheltered life, and your posting attitude reminds me of the idiots who go on threads just to flame and troll and don't actually bring anything interesting into the conversation.

I don't mean to flame, but I really can't think of any nice way to put it. To those of us who do know a little about asthma, it is painfully obvious that you don't.

 

[tnt666]

I don't mean to flame, but I really can't think of any nice way to put it. To those of us who do know a little about asthma, it is painfully obvious that you don't.

So yours is the ONLY valid point of view. Thank you very much. Point taken.

 

[Dymanic]

So yours is the ONLY valid point of view. Thank you very much. Point taken.

My point of view is that there is no single valid point of view. Asthma is a complex disease, and does not lend itself well to simple solutions (or simplistic solutions, such as the one you offer).

 

[tnt666]

My point of view is that there is no single valid point of view. Asthma is a complex disease, and does not lend itself well to simple solutions (or simplistic solutions, such as the one you offer).

The OP's request was for ideas. Considering that mild asthma can be managed with without medication, as was posted by several posters and is very common in life, the OP might have been able to save his relationship had he not insisted in a non essential treatment.

You in his shoes would also have pushed non essential medication onto your girlfriend, fine! The OP was not seeking medical advice, he was hoping for relationship help.

 

[Dymanic]

The OP was not seeking medical advice, he was hoping for relationship help.

Yet what you offered was medical advice -- and as medical advice, it was dubious at best, and dangerous at worst. In my opinion.

 

[six7s]

In my opinion.

I'm curious...

Is your opinion based on 'training'/study/etc?

I ask cos you said "To those of us who do know a little about asthma", which suggests - to me - that your opinion carries some weight

 

[tnt666]

Yet what you offered was medical advice -- and as medical advice, it was dubious at best, and dangerous at worst. In my opinion.

You've either misread or mistaken my post with someone else's. My post to OP mentioned that there are plenty of people out there with asthma, mild or not, who do not use medication and get along with mild discomfort. That's not medical advice that's just the facts of life.

 

[Dymanic]

I'm curious...

Is your opinion based on 'training'/study/etc?

I ask cos you said "To those of us who do know a little about asthma", which suggests - to me - that your opinion carries some weight

Having a child who has been an ambulance ride behind an acute asthma attack, and having a chronic lung disease with an asthmatic component myself, I have good inspiration for learning as much about asthma as is possible for a layman. A couple of things stand out. One is that asthma seems to be something that everybody's got something to say about; some unique and creative theory, some personal angle, some breakthrough remedy, whatever.

Meanwhile, the literature published by experts invariably places considerable emphasis on the degree to which asthma involves processes which are not thorougly understood -- in particular, inflammation and how it is regulated as part of an immune system response. There are as many potential asthma triggers as there are asthma patients. Bronchospasm as a response to emotional stress is not uncommon, but very often, the safe bet is to start with either continuous albuterol by neb, or a big ol' blast of IV solumedrol, or both -- and do the "relax and think happy thoughts" bit afterward.

Then you can spend the next few weeks trying to put a finger on exactly what it was that caused the flareup. Friends and family members are usually quite helpful during this phase; like I said everybody's got something to say about asthma. That always irks me, so if I come of a bit testy about it, I apologize.

 

[six7s]

... a layman

Thanks for the prompt and forthright reply

In my humble opinion, our (yes, I've had asthma, too) anecdote-based opinions carry little weight...

the literature published by experts invariably places considerable emphasis

I think its folly for "a layman" to speculate as to the motivations and methods of invariable (and anonymous?) 'experts'

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Noting the failure of a poster to post any evidence that asthma is overdiagnosed.

 

[Dymanic]

I think its folly for "a layman" to speculate as to the motivations and methods of invariable (and anonymous?) 'experts'

Any time I see experts noting that a phenomen is not well understood, my default assumption is that they are motivated by a desire to communicate the fact that the phenomenon is not well understood.

 

[six7s]

Any time I see experts noting that a phenomen is not well understood, my default assumption is that they are motivated by a desire to communicate the fact that the phenomenon is not well understood.

I don't understand








NB I am a such a layman that I'm prostrate (with 2 Rs!)

 

[tnt666]

[...] don't expect to be treated as anything other than an uninformed idiot

Gee, a physicist calling a biologist ... on a biology topic, forgive me your LORDSHIP... A moderator, over 8000 posts, one would think that you'd have developed a better attitude, or maybe it's actually why... Thankfully my ole physicist BF wasn't that way...

 

[Niggle]

Pot, meet Kettle

Gee, a physicist calling a biologist ... on a biology topic, forgive me your LORDSHIP... A moderator, over 8000 posts, one would think that you'd have developed a better attitude, or maybe it's actually why... Thankfully my ole physicist BF wasn't that way...

Your attitude is not helping. Your initial post sounded like all that was needed to prevent getting asthma was proper nursing and feeding from birth and plenty of fresh air and exercise afterward. It may not have been your intent, but it certainly sounded like you were dismissing most diagnoses of asthma out of hand and blaming the ones you chose to acknowledge on the patients themselves (or their parents).

What we're trying to tell you is that it ain't that easy. Several of us have expressed personal experience with the disease; you're only putting forth your opinion that sounds like it's based on nothing concrete. You may be a biologist, but you're obviously not a doctor. Unless you've specifically studied the lungs and how asthma affects them, you're talking blind. Jack of all trades, master of not this one.

six7s: Those of us who have asthma, have been trying to deal with it for years, and have been working with doctors in that capacity certainly know more about asthma than someone who has no direct experience with the disease. It may be anectodal to you. tnt666 has offered nothing more, either. Eos asked for some stats to prove the overdiagnosis in Canada. He/she has provided none.

For the record, I have asthma as well. I've had it since I was a baby (I had croup twice before I was a year old, and it scarred my lungs badly). Because I don't wheeze, no doctor figured out I had it until a pulmonologist took the time to put me through 5 hours of lung function tests to find out why I couldn't breathe (peak flow about half what it should have been for someone my age/size/activity level). I was 33. It took that long because too many boneheaded generalists knew nothing more about asthma than that people who had it wheezed. Given the source of the problem, I'm not going to be able to grow out of it. I wish I could afford the meds to manage it better.

Yes, tnt666, my mother breast fed me for at least the first several months of my life and was always very careful to make sure all us kids were properly nourished whether we liked what we were eating or not. I couldn't handle sports that required long, sustained effort (I couldn't breathe; most of my stupid gym teachers decided I was just lazy). But I hiked, biked, swam, canoed, camped, etc., more than most of my peers. I just had to do it in shorter bursts.

Your insistence that all we need is proper diet and exercise and woo-flavored relaxation techniques to throw all our meds away is insulting. If it's not your intent to be insulting, you need to review your screeds before posting them. Your attitude is very patronizing at best and often downright nasty (see above quote).

 

[tnt666]

Your attitude is not helping.

Attitude?????? the mere fact that I disagree that ALL asthmatics need medication to you appears like attitude, please. I expect more from the learned people at JREF.

Your initial post sounded like all that was needed to prevent asthma

Again, the word ALL, was never used by myself but my naysayers. My original post, once again, only serves the point of:
NOT ALL PEOPLE WITH ASTHMA HAVE TO HAVE MEDICATION, contrary to the OP's impression, and has been stated by a few others here.

Asthmatics, as certain diabetics, as many back pain sufferers, and many other disorders/maladies/diseases can mostly achieve a fair degree of comfort and control without medication. There's a difference between medication for comfort versus medication for mere survival. I have known dozens in all categories, so what you're saying is that I dreamed these people who were making do without medication???????????? Obviously you think I'm lying about those dozen or so friends, fine...

your opinion that sounds like it's based on nothing concrete.

Since when are opinions invalid? Have you never read a book of science that used opinions to change the conventional view of numbers. Science is not only numbers, it is how we choose to present them. I'll be sure to tell the dozen or so people I've known that they are not 'concrete', sure, deny their existence all you want...

Jack of all trades, master of not this one.

That's my aim in life to NOT have tunnel vision and have a certain perspective on science, I spent 9 years in biology aiming for that exactly. I also work for a pharmaceutical company, I know first hand how the bottom line is profit not health. It is in the industry's financial benefit to scare everyone into choosing "medication for life" instead of coping with life and it's little miseries. THIS IS NOT SAYING THAT SOME ASTHMATICS DO NEED MEDS TO STAY ALIVE.

[...]overdiagnosis in Canada.

Overdiagnosing is an educated opinion (I think those are still legal), the numbers had risen to an astonishing 13% of infants by 2000 and have continued rising since. So we may not be at exactly 20% but we're on our way there. Cigarette smoking has been mentioned in these studies, but it has been in continuous decline in Canada, so that should mean asthma would be on the decline. The medical industry states that a reason for the incredible increase may simply be that we are diagnosing more than before... When the industry itself states that we are diagnosing/prescribing more than before, for a problem that can often be controlled without medication, IT'S AN OBVIOUS PUSH TO INCREASE PROFITS.

insistence that all we need is proper[...]

Once again, I'm not 'insisting' on anything else but using your skeptical mind for the pharmaceutical industry as well. Because you seem to believe that pharmaceutical companies have your best health at heart I do place a certain arrogant faith in pure science, I put absolutely no trust in the pharmaceutical industry, even tho I work in it.
Once again, ALL was never pronounced by myself, of course SOME NEED medication, but not ALL...

Frankly I expected a little more 'grain a salt' from JREF participants. Not blind faith in any diagnosis thrown at us. If I had taken every diagnosis at face value in my life, I'd have spent the last 30 years of my life on multiple daily medication and bi-weekly physiotherapy. My life isn't perfect, I deal with some pain, but I've managed to make good use of my studies and I'm free from attachment to any medication, which is my final objective, as traveling without prescriptions is a freedom beyond any monetary value.

 

[Niggle]

tnt666

If kids just got out and played a little more and got some exercise instead of being over-pre-schooled or video gamed and if they had been properly nursed by their mothers, their immune systems would be just fine. ..., the whole asthma exaggeration phenomenon is a sales gimmick. Anxiety (misnomer for bad mental hygiene) controls too many lives.

Your first post. No qualifiers here about "some" or "mild cases," just blanket declarations. Asthma is the kids' fault for not getting outside and playing. It's the parents' fault for not feeding their kids properly. Anxiety is nothing more than bad mental hygiene? This is what I meant by blaming the victim.

"forgive me your LORDSHIP" - Your response to Cuddles (sorry; my quoting functions don't seem to be working right now). Yeah, there's no attitude there.

"So yours is the ONLY valid point of view. Thank you very much. Point taken." - Your response to Dynamic. Nope, there's no attitude showing, nosiree.

"Your words make you seem like someone with very little experience and insight outside of your own sheltered life, and your posting attitude reminds me of the idiots who go on threads just to flame and troll and don't actually bring anything interesting into the conversation. But of course I don't know you will not waste my time snooping around your history to know if this a pattern of yours..." - You talking to Cuddles again. Are you starting to get an idea of why you're not getting rave reviews in this thread?

You do make some valid points, but they're getting lost in the bluster. For the record, I think there are too many pills being handed out, too. But that isn't all due to the evils of Big Pharma (there's another thread on that, if you want to continue that rant). The solutions you offer require work, and some patients would rather take a pill than take the time to learn another way to manage it. Also, it can be pretty danged hard to concentrate on relaxation techniques when you can't breathe at all. Sometimes doctors who are treating asthma patients are generalists who don't know enough about the disease to do anything BUT hand out the medications recommended for the condition in their general training.

The OP has another issue to deal with (or did; the point is moot now). He's never divulged the source of his ex's mistrust of medications. If it's woo, it's an almost-certainly-lost battle against stubborn ignorance. If it's religion, it's a definitely-lost battle against hellfire and damnation. In that case, your relaxation techniques would almost certainly be rejected as well (meditation is a tool of the Devil, you know). Even mild asthmatics will have attacks occasionally, and prayer is not likely to help much. And, yes, even a mild asthmatic can die from it.

ETA:

"Once again, I'm not 'insisting' on anything else but using your skeptical mind for the pharmaceutical industry as well. Because you seem to believe that pharmaceutical companies have your best health at heart I do place a certain arrogant faith in pure science, I put absolutely no trust in the pharmaceutical industry, even tho I work in it."

I never mentioned anything whatsoever about pharmaceutical companies. Please keep your paranoia out of my posts. Thank you.

 

[tnt666]

Your first post. No qualifiers[...]

the qualifier was "asthma exaggeration phenomena", otherwise I would have stated 'in all cases of asthma'

Yeah, there's no attitude there[...]

When being flung attitude and insults, one has a few choices, turn the other cheek, disappear, or fight back, I chose to fight back. The fact I'm new to the forum seems to have given the habituals free range on discrediting anything I had to say. Just because one is new to the forum is not an excuse to bash them.

The OP has another issue to deal with

This will seem crude, but maybe had he laid off the med insistence for a case of mild asthma, his girlfriend would not have left him. On the other hand, the issue would have most likely come up again in the future, so they might not have worked out anyway.

Anyway, as another poster stated, survival of the fittest will decide. Amusingly, the fittest and eldest are usually the ones not having required too much medical assistance. So as skeptics, we must not jump to conclusions. The OP may live longer simply because he's healthier (if it's the case, genes or not), not matter the course of action taken by the GF.

Cheers

 

[Dymanic]

I put absolutely no trust in the pharmaceutical industry, even tho I work in it.

"Absolutely no trust" is not an option for me, considering that I wouldn't last a week without them. Similarly, I find that I have little choice but to place a certain amount of trust in the food industry, despite knowing that my health is not necessarily the thing closest to their hearts. I do understand the sentiment though, which is why I'm more inclined to seek medical advice from someone who doesn't work in the either the pharmaceutical industry or the food industry; specifically, a doctor.

The fact I'm new to the forum seems to have given the habituals free range on discrediting anything I had to say.

Right. Having been around a while is pretty much a free pass to say whatever you want without having to worry about anybody coming along and challenging it.

For my part, if I tend to be a little heavy-handed on this issue, it may be because I was given a hard lesson on how quickly asthma can go from mild to life threatening. When my kid was first diagnosed, I was right on the page with you: "man, they sure like to hand that one out", etc. I didn't know much about asthma back then, but I knew my kid, and he seemed fine to me. Later on he was maybe a little extra susceptible to upper respiratory bugs, and tended to miss a lot of school, but no big deal.

During one of those illnesses, as mild as any other as far as I could see, he quite suddenly became very short of breath. I had confidence in the tools I had for dealing with this. Some hours elapsed, and it wasn't until the wee hours of the morning that I acknowledged that his condition was continuing to worsen despite nebulized albuterol and supplemental oxygen. The terror in his eyes during that last half hour or so before the ambulance arrived will haunt me forever. In the hands of the professionals, his improvement was dramatic. Equally dramatic was the lesson I had just received: A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. (This was actually a review lesson, by the way).

Through my arrogance, I subjected my child to needless suffering. So when somebody like you steps up with what looks like some of the same ignorance and arrogance that I was guilty of, and if my reaction is to start kicking, maybe it will help to know that it isn't really you I'm kicking; it's me. I will never stop kicking myself for that.

Some time has gone by, and I've spent quite a bit of it reading about asthma. The funny thing is, the more I learn about it, the less I feel like I really know for sure. It may well be that a lot of doctors are perhaps a bit inclined to err on the side of caution. Based on my experience, it seems like a pretty wise approach.