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Human Evolution

This is ironic, skeptigirl, in that you often complain (rightfully so in many cases) that people are not responding to what you actually said. The shoe is on the other foot here. Please read and respond to what I actually said, not a grand scale revision of what I said. Thanks.
This is bizarre. I did respond and I thought quite nicely and well thought out at that. Perhaps you should re-read what I said. But in case that doesn't do it, let me highlight the points:
So this doesn't turn into a semantics argument we might want to address the specific operating mechanisms. If we disagree there, then we disagree. If we agree there then we may just be arguing semantics of the terms, "controlling, vs only operating", and "natural" which always bothered me as a term since I consider a human-made structure as natural as an animal's den.

First, a short sidetrack on the term, natural. I don't view humans as 'special' when it comes to the natural order of the Universe. On the other hand, there is nothing akin to our leap in technology in the rest of the animal world. The term, natural, is often used to mean, not human-made. And technology is usually considered all human-made.

So, getting back to natural selection pressures, until we start manipulating the human genome, which we are actually close to doing and have done so with plants, animals and microorganisms, Cuddles is more correct that we are affecting selection pressures, not controlling evolution.

The argument that affecting selection pressures is somehow unique in evolutionary terms is questionable. Animal migration affected past selection pressures. If you consider one mechanism of affecting selection pressures, you'll have to come up with a definition that distinguishes one means of affecting selection pressures from another than simply saying human-affected.

And, the statement, "mankind's ability to reproduce is no longer controlled by natural selection", while it supports the claim that humans have an affect on evolution, the statement is a long stretch from saying, "natural selection was [no longer] 'controlling'" evolution. A few in-vitro fertilizations and medical interventions which allow reproduction in a group of people who without technology would not have lived to reproduce hardly changes the balance of power in what/who is controlling humankind's evolutionary path.

What leads to the misconception we are currently having some huge impact on human evolution with our modern medical abilities is the false assumptions made on how fast evolution actually occurs. In microorganisms, evolution is very fast. In the collective human genome, it is incredibly slow.

Take for example the thousands of years it took for humans who migrated to higher latitudes to develop lighter skin. People of all skin types have now spread out around the world. Do you see light skinned Europeans in Australia giving birth to darker skinned children yet? No, you see an epidemic of malignant melanoma in light skinned Australians. It will be many many generations before natural selection pressures affect the evolution of skin in newcomers to Australia.

Are we affecting the selection pressures? Yes. People can wear hats, use sunscreen and get early treatment thus surviving melanoma.

I understand how one can make the semantics argument that is controlling evolution. But my view is that statement is far to big a stretch to describe the current impact humans are actually having on our evolutionary pathway. Affecting it, yes, controlling it, no way.
 
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What environmental pressure does artificial insemination change? It allows male/female pairs to reproduce that otherwise could not. I'm have a lot of trouble calling that "natural selection" (in the sense of the phrase I mentioned a couple of posts ago).
How does impacting a few individuals in the gene pool result in "controlling evolution"?

I think this is where you are missing the boat in what it actually takes to alter the evolution of a species of 6 billion members that reflect real evolutionary changes over millenniums.
 
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I remembered this from quite recently. The rate at which human beings evolve has sped up.

Humans have moved into the evolutionary fast lane and are becoming increasingly different, a genetic study suggests.

In the past 5,000 years, genetic change has occurred at a rate roughly 100 times higher than any other period, say scientists in the US.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7132794.stm

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN1043228620071210

And something very recent - http://www.usnews.com/articles/science/2008/07/24/where-is-human-evolution-heading.html
 
What environmental pressure does artificial insemination change? It allows male/female pairs to reproduce that otherwise could not. I'm have a lot of trouble calling that "natural selection" (in the sense of the phrase I mentioned a couple of posts ago).

But does artificial insemination allow everyone to reproduce, or are there still some who can and some who can't? As long as some people are able to reproduce more successfully than others, natural selection will happen. There are still people who can't have children even with all the artificial help in the world. There are people who don't have access to IVF, due to geographical, financial, social and probably many other -al reasons. There are risks associated with it. And there's always the fact that it's easier to do it the traditional way so naturally fertile people can outbreed the people who need help.

I certainly don't know exactly how IVF changes selection pressures or what the outcome will be, but as long as some people are more successful at breeding than others, natural selection will carry on working.
 
By golly, you're right. Thanks. Should we just carry on here since that thread ended a couple of years ago or ask the mods to merge them?

Um, just carry on?

I just thought people interested in the topic might like to take a look at the old thread.
 

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