How smart are elephants?

[zeusbheld]

Yes, 3rd eye, there is rote teaching involved according to the news reports. But this is the only elephant that can make these kind of paintings. That suggests there is more here than simply mindless repetitive movements.

I am not saying we can say the elephant knows, just that I am also not sure we can say it does not know.

from what i know of the camp, it was set up by two Russian artists, Komar and Melamid.

every article i've seen cites that the elephants are screened for 'talent'. incidentally most humans suck at painting regardless of how much time they spend in art school.

even if it's rote learning it most likely requires a certain amount of

the whole self portrait thing reeks of anthropomorphization, however. even *if* Miss Hong or mr. Paya know they are painting elephants.

'traditional' art schools are mostly rote learning btw. i'm halfway convinced that a great deal of human behavior, including the post that seems to imply Thailand is in Africa in order to feebly set up his dig at Rosie O'Donnell, are examples of the Clever Hans Effect.

as a gimmick and tourist attraction elephant painting is magnificent, and benefits the elephants. and it's a LOT easier than logging. or starving. incidentally, most humans aren't happy with the things they have to do in order to get by either.

unlike many inept human painters, the elephant painters' abstract work seems to use the entire surface, and have a sense of composition and negative space. this could be rote training, but many humans are too stupid to understand these simple concepts (at least based on what i've seen painted in art schools).

i'd be interested in knowing more about the elephant's sensory world. my understanding is that they have rather poor vision and, as someone mentioned, are red-green colorblind. possibly they see *some* color? extrapolating a bit looking at the abstract paintings by elephants, they still look somewhat composed if one considers them to be as colorblind as, say, my dad. even if they're as colorblind as my cat, the elephants do seem to show some sense of light-vs-dark as a compositional elephant.

rote training or not, they DO paint better than the average human, in my opinion. this does not, however, imply much either way in terms of how aware they are of what they're doing.

 

[Michael C]

There is some doubt about the authenticity of the degree of the elephant's actual input/ involvement in the creative process being expressed by the regulars over on the Usenet group alt.folkelore.urban -- camera cuts, fake trunks and pre-tracing being suggested.

YMMV & etc.

There are no fake trunks or camera cuts, nor is pre-tracing involved. What is clear from watching other videos and reading the report that I already mentioned is that there is always a trainer standing next to the elephant. The trainer guides the elephant's movements by applying pressure to a tusk. If the trainer does not intervene, the elephant may still paint, but the result will be abstract.

I don't think the elephant is conscious that the drawing actually depicts an elephant. If she was, she'd probably try to do something like it even when the trainer wasn't guiding her.

 

[AkuManiMani]

I find it hard to believe that an elephant wouldn't have the basic intelligence to make a crude drawing of an elephant. Now if they had insects etching pictures of other insects then I might be a lil impressed -- But an elephant -- big deal. /shrug

I think most of the shock at witnessing such a thing comes more from human arrogance than anything else; we, as a species, just find it hard to believe that any creature can even begin to approach us in cognitive ability o.<

the whole self portrait thing reeks of anthropomorphization, however. even *if* Miss Hong or mr. Paya know they are painting elephants.

While I agree its a bit premature to assume that the elephant intended the painting to be a portrait of itself I don't think it would be anthropomorphizing to believe that the elephant knew what is was drawing. I find it hard to reconcile the view that humans are the product of evolution but yet are placed on such a high pedestal that no other animal is comparable to us in cognitive ability.

 

[CurtC]

An elephant can paint a self-portrait, just like horses can solve math problems.

 

[Soapy Sam]

I was once with a safari group who chased a herd of elephants off a favoured campsite. The herd leader was clearly reluctant to leave.
Later that evening she returned and pushed a tree down across the road entrance to the site.
It may be anthropomorphism on my part, but it felt a lot like we had been given the finger.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I was once with a safari group who chased a herd of elephants off a favoured campsite. The herd leader was clearly reluctant to leave.
Later that evening she returned and pushed a tree down across the road entrance to the site.
It may be anthropomorphism on my part, but it felt a lot like we had been given the finger.

Should that not be "given the trunk"?

 

[Jeff Corey]

There are no fake trunks or camera cuts, nor is pre-tracing involved. What is clear from watching other videos and reading the report that I already mentioned is that there is always a trainer standing next to the elephant. The trainer guides the elephant's movements by applying pressure to a tusk. If the trainer does not intervene, the elephant may still paint, but the result will be abstract.

I don't think the elephant is conscious that the drawing actually depicts an elephant. If she was, she'd probably try to do something like it even when the trainer wasn't guiding her.

Facilitated Communication in the Elephant? Guiding the tusks, huh. That's why the vid doesn't show the trainer.
It wouldn't work in Alabama, where the Tuscaloosa.

 

[dann]

Oh, I absolutely agree with you on wanting to know what that elephant is thinking when it's painting. (I was just clarifying that particular question.)

"Ho hum, another day of doing this stick and color thing so I get some sugar cane."
Or
"If I get a little more depth in it I'm sure I can get it to look like my sister Nanu."

It took evolved homsaps several thousand years to invent depth and perspective. How many drawings by fashion designers have depth? So how about:
'Anyone can paint a picture of my sister Nanu or one of the other fat-bottomed bitches stuffing their mouthes with hay all day long, but how about this slim cutie? Hasn't she got legs?!!!'

This elephant is on the verge of inventing elephantine anorexia!

 

[ErkDemon]

The BBC just showed a documentary about tigers made of footage shot by elephants.

I know, I know ... I immediately had an image of an elephant holding a domestic camcorder up to its eye and squinting at the screen, and that's not really the case here.

But they did train them to find tigers and plant cameras nearby disguised as logs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7312511.stm