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How Penn changed my life...

kittynh

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
22,634
OK I feel strongly enough about this that I am going to explain how Penn's remarks changed my life. I'm totally serious when I write this. I am a deist, but when he said that we needed to be totally honest with people, and that we could be totally honest and still be liked, I was struck as if by a bolt of lightening. You see, Penn was being honest, Mr.Randi is honest, and yet - deist that I am - I still respect, like and in the case of Mr.Randi I love him. As a woman who was raised to be meek and quiet and a "lady" I was in fear of being honest and losing the respect of those around me. I was always the tactful careful skeptic.

So, I decided from that moment to try being honest. To stop being rude by actually lying to people around me, and to try honesty. It has worked wonders. I can't believe the respect I've received and the fact that people are looking at me a new way.

Here is how I have changed my behavior in the past 24 hours. It started when I landed in Hartford and was riding on the little bus to the parking lot. It was bitterly cold and a woman with 2 small children was sitting across from me. She told the kids, "let's all think good thought that the car will start!" I asked her, "do you really think positive thinking will help your car start?" She looked up startled. "well, "she answered, "it can't hurt!" I smiled at her and said, "but what if your car doesn't start? Will your children think it's because they failed by not thinking enough positive thoughts?" She looked flustered then said, "well, I never thought of it like that before." She wasn't mad or anything, so I added, "wouldn't it be better to teach them that while you hope the car starts, if it doesn't you can easily get help from a garage. That these situations shouldn't be scarey or upsetting. OUr society has ways of taking care of problems like a car not starting." Then, it happened....the woman THANKED ME!

I went into school to work and took to the middle school two of Dr.Shermers books I had brought for the classroom. Usually the very educated middle school teachers kind of look at me as the flakey sweet art teacher. I handed them to the head teacher and instead of just dropping them off and hoping that he would read them, I said, "These books were written by an atheist. I think he has many points that should be read by ALL teachers." I then opened the book and made the teacher look at the table of contents. His eyes opened up, and he began to get excited about the books. He put them in his back pack to take home to get started on that night. And then he THANKED ME for taking the time to point out the finer points of the books.

I then was talking about the meeting when the janitor came by. I mentioned Penn and Teller were there, and she stopped to ask me who else had been there (she's a Penn and Teller fan). When I mentioned Ian Rowland, and cold reading, she stopped and said, "you mean Sylvia Browne isn't real? But she's on tv all the time, and no one says she isn't real!" I looked her in the eye and I said, "I say she isn't real. Penn and Teller say she isn't real. " I then did my own impromtu cold reading on another teacher standing there. (I did the "I see a M, Mary, Marie..." trust me I know I'm not good at it). The janitor was amazed, she had never even a suspicion that Sylvia Browne wasn't real. And then she THANKED ME!

I know some people are going to object, and that's fine. BUt, I can't tell you how good it felt to for once respect me own beliefs over a fear of people not liking me. I'm ready for the rebuffs. I think I can still be friends with those who disagree with me, but I like to think they are going to see it as a sign of my respect for them that I'm willing to tell them how I feel.

As Penn himself might put it, I am no longer going to BULLSH$T anyone!

Thank you Penn, with all my heart.
 
I will second this actually :) I've been trying to do the same myself, and give people the respect of what I actually think.


They seem to be laughing though :p
 
Wow, Kitty, those stories are great! (and inspirational).

I'm glad that I got to meet you at TAM 2 and that you got home safely.

--James
 
I have to admit that I have become more carney trashlike in my presentation of material in lectures, due to Penn. It sure gets their attention.
I just don't use words like "retard".
 
I told my students yesterday that, although I do not intend to offend them personally, I do intend to challenge and even offend their deeply held beliefs. "Any deeply held belief that cannot stand up to a challenge should be challenged", or words to that effect. They appreciated it, and the fact that I asked them to challenge my beliefs as well.
 
Yes but you know Mercutio this why people go to the University, to question their beliefs and to learn the critical thinking.

Also, I believe that people don't really need to go to the University to become preachers, don't you think?


originally posted by Jeff Corey
I just don't use words like "retard".

Avoiding certain words is not enough in my opinion and I am not addressing you specifically Jeff I just mention it given the opportunity. The important is not to behave to others as if they are retards or idiots how you call them doesn't really matter.
 
kittynh said:
I know some people are going to object, and that's fine. BUt, I can't tell you how good it felt to for once respect me own beliefs over a fear of people not liking me. I'm ready for the rebuffs. I think I can still be friends with those who disagree with me, but I like to think they are going to see it as a sign of my respect for them that I'm willing to tell them how I feel.
Kitty that was so well said.

Usually if someone asks what I think I'll tell them, I usually hold off on the unsolicited advice. But maybe I'll rethink that a little now...
 
Cleopatra said:
Yes but you know Mercutio this why people go to the University, to question their beliefs and to learn the critical thinking.
You might be surprised, and perhaps a bit disheartened, to see how many students feel entitled to have their cherished beliefs go unchallenged. They are, I think, in the minority, but their opinion is that they paid good money for their degree, and since they pay my salary they can dictate what I tell them.

The looks on my students faces yesterday when I told them that their sacred cows were fair game showed me that they were not used to this treatment. They welcomed it, I think, but looked quite surprised.
 
Cleopatra said:
Yes but you know Mercutio this why people go to the University, to question their beliefs and to learn the critical thinking.

Oh Cleo, what an idealist! Students don't want to be challenged. they want to get their piece of paper that they see as a ticket to a job. I always start the semester with a quiz, and one of the questions is: why are you in college?
ususally over 95% say "to get a job" or "because my parents made me."
nothing about learning. and Merc, if you teach one of the required "core" courses, i pity you deeply. Intro bio was always a huge challenge to make students who didn't want to be there, who had a minimal grasp of mathematics, and who were deeply offended by evolution, try to get engaged in learning.
[oh dear, i think you pushed a button. better cut myself off here.]

Back on topic: Way to go Kitty!!!!!!
 
Mercutio said:
You might be surprised, and perhaps a bit disheartened, to see how many students feel entitled to have their cherished beliefs go unchallenged. They are, I think, in the minority, but their opinion is that they paid good money for their degree, and since they pay my salary they can dictate what I tell them.

The looks on my students faces yesterday when I told them that their sacred cows were fair game showed me that they were not used to this treatment. They welcomed it, I think, but looked quite surprised.

There is a joke in the Greek Universities. The professor's desk in an amphitheatre is called " edra" and the Archibishop's chair is called " Kathedra". When I was at the University we used to laugh at the professors that they were preaching on their Kathedras instead of teaching.

I don't disagree with you but I have a question. Do you go teaching ready for the possibility that your views might be challenged? I am not refering to your scientific views of course because a student cannot seriously challenge the scientific views of a teacher but I am refering to the way you approach a theoritical matter or you think that a teacher cannot allow himself to doubt because he will lose his authority.

I am asking you because I observe lately this trend among skeptics. They enter a debate ready only to persuade the other although this is not what skepticism is about and I can't help but remembering of the missionaries when I see such behaviors.

I confess that the incident Kitty described with the book of Shermer ( who is not an atheist but an agnostic BTW) reminded me of that :)

And one last ( for the moment) remark: The younger we are the more absolute our opinions are and one of the desires of the youth is to question and debate the views of the teacher or of the authority in general so maybe some of your students are beyond the mentality : " I am paying you so you shut-up" .
 
Cleopatra said:

I don't disagree with you but I have a question. Do you go teaching ready for the possibility that your views might be challenged? I am not refering to your scientific views of course because a student cannot seriously challenge the scientific views of a teacher but I am refering to the way you approach a theoritical matter or you think that a teacher cannot allow himself to doubt because he will lose his authority.
I always ask them to challenge me, and I have changed significant views almost every semester! I am always prepared to say "I don't know" (which my students say is a refreshing change from the profs who know more than they really do) and to go find out.

I don't think of myself so much as an authority, but rather as a guide. Every tour is different, even of the same location.
 
bug_girl said:


I always start the semester with a quiz, and one of the questions is: why are you in college?
ususally over 95% say "to get a job" or "because my parents made me."
nothing about learning.


Whoa!!! How poignant!!!

Oh to (re)instill the joy of learning... To just fill our brains with tons of stuff ...


What do we do that destroys the thirst for knowledge that comes naturally to preschoolers?

It must have something to do with taking the fun out of it...


Your comments have really made me think about what can be done to make kids ' want ' to go to school....
 
Cleopatra said:
I am not refering to your scientific views of course because a student cannot seriously challenge the scientific views of a teacher

Why not?
 
bug_girl said:

Merc, if you teach one of the required "core" courses, i pity you deeply. Intro bio was always a huge challenge to make students who didn't want to be there, who had a minimal grasp of mathematics, and who were deeply offended by evolution, try to get engaged in learning.
One of my favorite experiences was with a young woman from Kansas in one of my large intro classes (270 students). She introduced herself the first day (so polite!) and when I found out where she was from, I had to ask her opinion on the creationist debate. "I'm in favor of it; I am a creationist," was her reply. I assured her that I would do my level best to tear down the very pillars of her belief system, but that I would always welcome any challenge. The rules would be the same for each of us--back up your claims.

She eventually transfered back to Kansas...but I got a wonderful e-mail from her several months later, in which she thanked me for being the first person in her educational career to challenge her beliefs. She was reading some of the books I had recommended to her and, as they say, the scales were falling from her eyes.

Another pair of students used to come to my office regularly to argue about things from class. My favorite line from them "we got so angry with you, because you were tearing down everything we believed.....and the worst part was, you had evidence!"
 
Diogenes said:


Oh to (re)instill the joy of learning... To just fill our brains with tons of stuff ...


What do we do that destroys the thirst for knowledge that comes naturally to preschoolers?

It must have something to do with taking the fun out of it...

It is exactly "To just fill our brains with tons of stuff" that is taking the fun out of it. Teaching science as a long list of fact will bore even the most enthusiastic kid sooner or later.

I´m just reading Phil Plait´s "Bad Astronomy" - and, boy, that book is great... (and that comes from someone who dropped physics as soon as he possibly could!)
 
Honesty is good. Adaptability and diplomacy are better :)

If you are surrounded by 100 fanatic Muslims ready to stone you if you don't say you accept Allah, are you going to be honest ? If a person close to you is going to die in a couple of months and you know that telling her is going to ruin her last days, are you going to be honest ? If your girlfriend has gone to a lot of trouble to prepare a Valentine's day dinner and the result is awful, are you going to be honest ?
 
Great stories Kitty! Thank you. I did my own low-key method Monday when I wore my "Friendly Neighborhood Atheist" sweatshirt on my flight home. I saw several people eyeing it and one person asked me where I got it.
 
i can only speak for the sciences, but the emphasis on memorization really manages to kill a lot of the fun of learning.

And, joy! "No child left behind" with its emphasis on standardized testing will just make things much worse. There really isn't a way to test problem solving and creativity with a scantron sheet. It takes lots of time and energy, something that i'm pretty sure Merc will agree is always in short supply in a teacher's life.
 
well, el greco....when my cousin was dying I went and bought her crystals and woo woo books (as she asked). After she died I came to the conclusion that instead of helping her, we prolonged the time that she still believed that her bone cancer would be cured. It didn't matter the doctors said it was going to be fatal, she (and we) could find lots of people to tell her she "has a chance" if only she tried this or that. Yeah, the time to be honest is when the chips are down. I'd be nice, but I wouldn't go out to the woo woo shops for her. And I'd ask her why she didn't trust her doctors (who so obviously cared). One relative said, "If caring could cure cancer, those doctors and nurses would have saved her".

As for Muslim country, well, my daughter lived in a muslim country, and hopes to return. I'd be honest, but also say that I love their culture and history, and their language is so very beautiful (Kitten is an Arabic major). Would I wear a head scarf, yes, because it's the law. I'd be respectful, but I'd still speak the truth.

and OPPS I DID IT AGAIN! I took on my dental assistant! She always goes on and on about her fundie beliefs. So today I told her, "well, I listened to you for 2 minutes, and today I'd like to ask you to listen to my beliefs for 2 minutes." She said, "I don't have to listen to your beliefs because I know I'm right." I pointed out that I didn't believe in her god as her god believed children should burn in hell for going trick or treating, and that kids having fun wasn't a good enough reason for eternal damnation. She left the room and another assistant came in. So, I lost that round, but I kept my dignity I think. Look out world! I'm on fire!
 

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